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Thread: macomb county cpl questioning

  1. #1
    Regular Member GlockIt's Avatar
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    macomb county cpl questioning

    I have heard from some that the Macomb County Gun Board likes to ask if you have ever been arrested.

    Has anyone been asked this?

    Did they follow up by asking what were the arrest for?

    I have had a couple arrest in the past a while ago at least eight years could be more, one for having a hash pipe or marijuana bowl that wasnt even mine. Just happend to be in a car with some wrong friends and I got the charge. Plead guilty to 7411 and sucessfully completed.

    Another arrest was for a traffic ticket I completley forgot about, was waranted and picked up while driving. I had a friend come pay the fine and was released.

    As far as the cpl app goes I do not have anything that would disqualify me.

    Could the gun board deny me based on those arrest? I understand the shal issue law but from what I hear the gunboard could refuse cpl if they believe you may be a danager to yourself or others.

    Id rather not have to fight it in circut court if it came to that.

    Any information would be greatly appreciated.

    I also have a commercial drivers licences with a hazardous materials endorsment that requires a federal background check to recieve.

    Would seem a little strange to be able to carry a tractor trailer full of explosives anywhere in the country but not be allowed to conceal a pistol.
    Last edited by GlockIt; 02-15-2012 at 05:44 AM.
    Id rather look at my ugly Glock than shoot your fancy S&W.

  2. #2
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockIt View Post
    I have heard from some that the Macomb County Gun Board likes to ask if you have ever been arrested.

    Has anyone been asked this?

    Did they follow up by asking what were the arrest for?

    I have had a couple arrest in the past a while ago at least eight years could be more, one for having a hash pipe or marijuana bowl that wasnt even mine. Just happend to be in a car with some wrong friends and I got the charge. Plead guilty to 7411 and sucessfully completed.

    Another arrest was for a traffic ticket I completley forgot about, was waranted and picked up while driving. I had a friend come pay the fine and was released.

    As far as the cpl app goes I do not have anything that would disqualify me.

    Could the gun board deny me based on those arrest? I understand the shal issue law but from what I hear the gunboard could refuse cpl if they believe you may be a danager to yourself or others.

    Id rather not have to fight it in circut court if it came to that.

    Any information would be greatly appreciated.

    I also have a commercial drivers licences with a hazardous materials endorsment that requires a federal background check to recieve.

    Would seem a little strange to be able to carry a tractor trailer full of explosives anywhere in the country but not be allowed to conceal a pistol.
    Legally they can only not issue it to you if you do not meet all the qualifications.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  3. #3
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Legally they can only not issue it to you if you do not meet all the qualifications.
    But being Macomb County they will do what they feel like to you and it will be up to you to sue them to get your CPL. When you sue them you might be over get your court costs paid for. If you have a slightly above average understanding of the law you should be able to handle the lawsuit yourself. If not, you should probably hire a lawyer.

    First step is to apply and see what happens. Be prepared for a fight -- which you will win.
    Last edited by TheQ; 02-15-2012 at 08:21 AM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockIt View Post

    Would seem a little strange to be able to carry a tractor trailer full of explosives anywhere in the country but not be allowed to conceal a pistol.
    Try to avoid using common sense with legal, and .gov issues. It will only lead to fristration, confusion and disappointment.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Idea

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    But being Macomb County they will do what they feel like to you and it will be up to you to sue them to get your CPL. When you sue them you might be over get your court costs paid for. If you have a slightly above average understanding of the law you should be able to handle the lawsuit yourself. If not, you should probably hire a lawyer.

    First step is to apply and see what happens. Be prepared for a fight -- which you will win.
    +1 Q

    Could you help him/her/it/us with the steps needed to file the suit in Circuit court. This info might make for a great sticky on http://www.miopencarry.org [shameless plug intended]
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  6. #6
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    +1 Q

    Could you help him/her/it/us with the steps needed to file the suit in Circuit court. This info might make for a great sticky on http://www.miopencarry.org [shameless plug intended]
    There is a better solution -- SB 59.

    IANAL. I'd file suit and request a writ of mandamus. Cite the applicable shall issue sections in MCL 28.425.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    There is a better solution -- SB 59.

    IANAL. I'd file suit and request a writ of mandamus. Cite the applicable shall issue sections in MCL 28.425.
    Agreed but.....

    Until this is passed (hopefully soon) we are left with filing suit and most do not know how without incurring heavy costs & the court does not volunteer what forms are needed to file. So if it's not too much trouble could you please expand on this for all our edification?

    Please, pretty please ....
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 02-15-2012 at 11:01 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  8. #8
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    IANAL

    Nor do I have any background in filing a Circuit Court action in MI.

    1. Call your local Circuit Court office and they will tell you the procedure for filing an action along with all proper filing fees.
    2. Read MCL 28.425 up and down
    3. Fill out proper court forms and prepare a brief on the matter.
    4. In your prayer for relief ask for a Writ of Mandamus. Also request reasonable court costs/expenses.
    5. File a motion for Summary Judgement. CADL has given you a few good examples on what a motion for Summary Judgement could look like. (See MGO v. CADL and CADL v. MOC -- Both in Ingham County -- files are open to the public)

    The easier path, obviously, is hire a lawyer. Chance are you can get your attorney and court costs paid ala the County.

    Again -- IANAL. This is about as detailed as I get.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandamus
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  9. #9
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by GlockIt View Post
    I have heard from some that the Macomb County Gun Board likes to ask if you have ever been arrested.

    Has anyone been asked this?

    Did they follow up by asking what were the arrest for?

    I have had a couple arrest in the past a while ago at least eight years could be more, one for having a hash pipe or marijuana bowl that wasnt even mine. Just happend to be in a car with some wrong friends and I got the charge. Plead guilty to 7411 and sucessfully completed.

    Another arrest was for a traffic ticket I completley forgot about, was waranted and picked up while driving. I had a friend come pay the fine and was released.

    As far as the cpl app goes I do not have anything that would disqualify me.

    Could the gun board deny me based on those arrest? I understand the shal issue law but from what I hear the gunboard could refuse cpl if they believe you may be a danager to yourself or others.

    Id rather not have to fight it in circut court if it came to that.

    Any information would be greatly appreciated.

    I also have a commercial drivers licences with a hazardous materials endorsment that requires a federal background check to recieve.

    Would seem a little strange to be able to carry a tractor trailer full of explosives anywhere in the country but not be allowed to conceal a pistol.
    It depends on whats in your records.I got a lawyer($250) to go with me,after they denied me because the info they had on me was incorrect.I passed the 3&8 year lists but they tried to use MCL 28.425b(n),which allowed 2 of the 3 board members to try denying me because of their "feeling" it would be "detrimental to the safety of the applicant or to any other individual",as this vague part of the law states!I showed them 2 front page stories(Macomb Daily) from the OC picnic that I helped organize in Warren on 8/16/08,told them I already OC daily(lawfully exercising my Right to Bear) according to Article 1 Sec. 6 of the MI Constitution,and with 40 years of firearm training that I AM serious about my Right to Defend myself!All 3 then Thanked me in front of at least 15 others in the room,who heard my speech,and gave me my CPL!The only board member that was with me, all the way through this harrassment,was the MSP Rep!The procecutor and sheriff reps showed their disdain for my 2A Rights through the whole process.I waited too long after my initial denial to appeal "in a timely manner",so I had to re-apply(with $105 fee again) and start all over.I do believe the 2 Reps may have still ignored me if I had not had a lawyer with me!KNOW THE LAW before you go!CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  10. #10
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    denying me because of their "feeling" it would be "detrimental to the safety of the applicant or to any other individual",as this vague part of the law states!
    Actually the CPL licensing law doesn't really allow them to deny on the basis of "feelings." They must be able to show repeated violations of law or some other real evidence for denial.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(s24...me=mcl-28-425b

    (n) Issuing a license to the applicant to carry a concealed pistol in this state is not detrimental to the safety of the applicant or to any other individual. A determination under this subdivision shall be based on clear and convincing evidence of repeated violations of this act, crimes, personal protection orders or injunctions, or police reports or other clear and convincing evidence of the actions of, or statements of, the applicant that bear directly on the applicant's ability to carry a concealed pistol.
    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  11. #11
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Actually the CPL licensing law doesn't really allow them to deny on the basis of "feelings." They must be able to show repeated violations of law or some other real evidence for denial.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(s24...me=mcl-28-425b



    Bronson
    They denied me for record errors(1st appearance).Attended with lawyer and denied(2nd appearance)in their own words because of MCL 28.425b(n),told to appear again in 30 days with any paperwork to support my request for CPL.Their words,we "feel"you would be a danger to the communitee if we(procecutor,sheriff Reps) allowed you to CC!
    (3rd appearance) showed my pro-2A paperwork(2 macomb daily front page news stories,certified letters(statement of Article 1 Sec. 6 Rights and applicable firearm MCLs to commissioner Dwyer(WPD),Sheriff Hackel,Levin-Levin&Stabenow,MI Reps,Detroit News etc. etc.).Denied twice none the less(illegaly)!3rd time they gave in!
    Do you think they would have given me(a simple non lawyer citizen) my CPL if I didn't have a lawyer there?I do not believe they would have,since they had no grounds to deny in the first place.The law said they can't but they did.Since when do Anti's have to follow law?
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    The law said they can't but they did.Since when do Anti's have to follow law?
    You'll get no argument from me. The law says what it says, people will do what they do. The trick is bringing the two into congruence.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  13. #13
    Regular Member GlockIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    They denied me for record errors(1st appearance).Attended with lawyer and denied(2nd appearance)in their own words because of MCL 28.425b(n),told to appear again in 30 days with any paperwork to support my request for CPL.Their words,we "feel"you would be a danger to the communitee if we(procecutor,sheriff Reps) allowed you to CC!
    (3rd appearance) showed my pro-2A paperwork(2 macomb daily front page news stories,certified letters(statement of Article 1 Sec. 6 Rights and applicable firearm MCLs to commissioner Dwyer(WPD),Sheriff Hackel,Levin-Levin&Stabenow,MI Reps,Detroit News etc. etc.).Denied twice none the less(illegaly)!3rd time they gave in!
    Do you think they would have given me(a simple non lawyer citizen) my CPL if I didn't have a lawyer there?I do not believe they would have,since they had no grounds to deny in the first place.The law said they can't but they did.Since when do Anti's have to follow law?
    Well I suppose if they wanted to say I was a danger to myself or others id use my drivers licenses as backup. I have a hazardous materials endorcement on my commercial drivers licenses. It was federaly granted to me to transport anything such as explosives, poisions, gas in all forms, toxins, radioactive material, and so on. If that dosent prove that im not a danger to myself or others I dont know what would.
    Id rather look at my ugly Glock than shoot your fancy S&W.

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    just answer there questions with a question: sorry, I don't know what an arrest means? Can you define the term?

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