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What type of ammo do you carry and why

jgregel

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
39
Location
Ohio, USA
What are the chances the gun and mag you have on you is still loaded with cheap range ammo? Interesting discussion, though.

Not a chance. I never keep any magazines loaded with range ammo. Always loaded with SD rounds. When I go to the range, which is usually my backyard, I unload my mags and load them with the cheep stuff for practice. I typically shoot between 100-200 rounds for practice and when I'm done I reload all my mags with SD rounds again.

As for what I carry I'm not too picky. I carry a Glock mod 23 and its loaded with 180gr XTP HP right now. Most of the major brands will do just fine. I personally pace more emphasis on shot placement. An awesome, supper expanding HP through the arm is not going to work as well as a FMJ though the heart/ lung.

I've hunted with Speer Gold Dots and Hornady XTPs in 44mag and they work pretty well so those are the ones I usually carry in .40cal. There is no one bullet that will out perform everything else in all cases. If there was then everyone would be using it.

John
 

massivedesign

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
865
Location
Olympia, Washington, USA
Most PD around here carry the Speer Gold Dots. They carry that because that's what the WSP uses. WSP uses it not because of it's ballistics, but because of the deal they get from Speer in the quantities they buy. Same reason a lot of Depts. are switching over to the M&P, because the WSP did, and they only did because S&W gave them an offer they couldn't refuse... Even though most of the troopers I know, hate em.
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
A few years ago I bought silver tips because it was the only JHP I could find do they do anything special? And aren't +P and hyroshock similar in the sense that they both have increased pressure?

+P has to do with pressure. The Hydra-Shok is a proprietary bullet design that is claimed to improve expansion. The two may be in combination, a Hydra-Shok bullet combined with a +P load but the two are not the same.

FWIW, some head to head tests at the Plantation Range by local law agencies showed that the Gold Dot Hollow Points were more than equal to the Hydra-Shok bullet. In some circumstances even better.


First Rule of SD. A hit by an inferior bullet is far more effective than a miss by the most deadly bullet. It isn't what you carry, it's what you can hit with what you carry.
 

yz9890

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
47
Location
Louisville, KY
+P has to do with pressure. The Hydra-Shok is a proprietary bullet design that is claimed to improve expansion. The two may be in combination, a Hydra-Shok bullet combined with a +P load but the two are not the same.

FWIW, some head to head tests at the Plantation Range by local law agencies showed that the Gold Dot Hollow Points were more than equal to the Hydra-Shok bullet. In some circumstances even better.


First Rule of SD. A hit by an inferior bullet is far more effective than a miss by the most deadly bullet. It isn't what you carry, it's what you can hit with what you carry.

the HydraShok is still a great bullet but it's a pretty old design. Federal has been selling it since the 80's but it's roots go back to the mid 70's. the more modern defense cartridges benefit from pretty big advances in bullet design and manufacture.

it probably doesn't matter much in my opinion though. just pick a defense load that cycles well in whatever guns you run and be happy with it. there's nothing magical about any of them. even some of the federal agencies (FAM's, FFDO) are dumping the Gold Dot in favor of generic Remington hollow points. not because the Speer sucks but because they both do the same job only one does it more cost effectively.
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
Not sure how hard it is to find out but I'd think the safest, if there is such a thing would be to carry the same thing the police carry.

Most PD around here carry the Speer Gold Dots. They carry that because that's what the WSP uses.

I recommend carrying what the local PD carry. It may help in a SD case.

Scenario #1
Prosecutor question (other than its a compound question):
Did you use these extremely lethal rounds as shown by ballistics? The purpose of these as determined by our experts are to make killing easier and quicker, was your goal to kill the individual?

Defendant Answer:
(Try and defend ones use)

Scenario #2
Prosecutor question (other than its a compound question):
Did you use these extremely lethal rounds as shown by ballistics? The purpose of these as determined by our experts are to make killing easier and quicker, was your goal to kill the individual?

Defendant Answer:
(part of answer) I use the same ammunition that my local police force uses in there duty weapon.
 

9 Micky Mouse

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2011
Messages
35
Location
McDonough,GA
I carry Corbon 115gr +p 9mm JHP at 1350fps it hits hard. Best 9mm for personal protection you can get off the shelf. Old tech but it has worked for me.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Hydroshock, silver tip, +P.... ok guys help me out I am not a ballistics expert and I get lost in a lot of this stuff I have a simple question for all of you, what do you carry for self defense and why. I am going through all of my ammo right now and am trying to figure out what is the right bullet for me. I have always been a big fan of shooting heavier grain bullets with the philosophy of hit em with the biggest round possible you feel comfortable with to put them down fast, but after a recent trip to the range and shooting some lower grain "self defense ammo" I am thinking about changing my way of thinking. I shot better groups and got back on target faster with the lower grain they really impressed me and I do not think your average want to be slim shady is going to notice a difference between 165 grains and 180. So my question is what grain and type of ammo do you carry for self defense and why. I understand the difference between FMJ and HP and will be carrying HP for self defense...

It really depends greatly on what caliber/cartridge it is.

Anything less than a .380 (unless it is the Seecamp .32), I recommend FMJ. Yeah, you can find the wazoo hollowpoints for .25's and .32's, but in these cases I think you need to regain all the penetration you've lost. The Seecamp was designed from the ground up to fire Winchester Silvertips. It is more reliable with Silvertips than with FMJ. The other exception would be the new .327 Magnum revolvers.

I put the .380 on the fence. I see nothing wrong with FMJs here, but you could also use a MODERN hollowpoint designed to expand at its anemic velocities; something like the Hornady Critical Defense. Also, make absolutely certain you have a quality firearm that is reliable with the type of hollowpoint you carry. Many .380's should be relegated to FMJs purely on the reliability standpoint.

Your bullet weights lead me to believe you are possibly using a .40 S&W. Honestly, modern hollowpoints here are all so good, it's almost like deciding which beer you drink based on which ad had the best looking girl drinking it at the time, not that there's anything wrong with that. There are really only two types to choose from, and which is best for you depends on who you are.

Law Enforcement has more of a need to possibly engage targets behind cover. They also aren't as concerned with collateral damage. Please note my use of comparatives. I am not saying they don't care. So, they may do well with bonded bullets that offer increased penetration, such as Winchester PDX Bonded. A typical self-defense scenario is more likely to benefit from a hollowpoint designed to more greatly limit penetration and deliver energy into the first target, something again like the Hornady Critical Defense.

But bullet terminal ballistics are much lower on the list of important things than people often place it. You mention better accuracy and shootability with a certain bullet. This is far more important. Very few defensive shootings will need to rely on the actual terminal ballistics of the bullet to end the fight. Having the firearm, the will and ability to deploy it, and putting a hole in a bad guy are FAR, FAR more important than the actual size of the hole. That said, when you get to where to can adjust the size of the hole while keeping everything else equal, go for it.
 
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Tawnos

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Washington
I really like and carry Federal Premium HST. (the next generation HydraShok).
I carry HST 147, but a slight correction: they're the next generation of Hi shok, not hydrashok (HST = hi shok two). Hydrashok was designed around that center post. As you've alluded to in the other post, it's old tech.

In my revolver I carry Gold Dots. A close second to HST, just more expensive :)
 

Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
I recommend carrying what the local PD carry. It may help in a SD case.

Scenario #1
Prosecutor question (other than its a compound question):
Did you use these extremely lethal rounds as shown by ballistics? The purpose of these as determined by our experts are to make killing easier and quicker, was your goal to kill the individual?

Defendant Answer:
(Try and defend ones use)

Scenario #2
Prosecutor question (other than its a compound question):
Did you use these extremely lethal rounds as shown by ballistics? The purpose of these as determined by our experts are to make killing easier and quicker, was your goal to kill the individual?

Defendant Answer:
(part of answer) I use the same ammunition that my local police force uses in there duty weapon.

Interesting idea, I may actually look at the local PDs for that information. It does defuse a potential spin by an over zealous District Attorney.
 

yz9890

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
47
Location
Louisville, KY
I carry HST 147, but a slight correction: they're the next generation of Hi shok, not hydrashok (HST = hi shok two). Hydrashok was designed around that center post. As you've alluded to in the other post, it's old tech.

In my revolver I carry Gold Dots. A close second to HST, just more expensive :)

thanks for that correction. i never gave any thought to what HST stood for. that makes sense.
 

golddigger14s

Activist Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,068
Location
Lawton, OK USA
The type of ammo used in SD court scenario, is almost as bad as the OCing will cause you to be targeted by a BG scenario. Let's stop the madness.
 

yz9890

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
47
Location
Louisville, KY
The type of ammo used in SD court scenario, is almost as bad as the OCing will cause you to be targeted by a BG scenario. Let's stop the madness.

I had a hard time following this statement. What do you mean?

I don't give a second thought about what an attorney might ask me in the aftermath about my ammo. I put the ammo in the gun so I could kill someone with in the horrible chance I would need to. dead is dead. "why did you use such a devastating bullet?" my answer: "I just use bullets".
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
I recommend carrying what the local PD carry. It may help in a SD case.

Scenario #1
Prosecutor question (other than its a compound question):
Did you use these extremely lethal rounds as shown by ballistics? The purpose of these as determined by our experts are to make killing easier and quicker, was your goal to kill the individual?

Defendant Answer:
(Try and defend ones use)

Scenario #2
Prosecutor question (other than its a compound question):
Did you use these extremely lethal rounds as shown by ballistics? The purpose of these as determined by our experts are to make killing easier and quicker, was your goal to kill the individual?

Defendant Answer:
(part of answer) I use the same ammunition that my local police force uses in there duty weapon.

False premise.


"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
False premise.


"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

You got me. However, my basic premise still stands. A prosecutor could still pull an expert witness in ballistics to somehow portray me as a bad guy. If I am using the same ammo as my local PD, my defense attorney (if determined a benefit) could call a local PD to the stand or submit into evidence an affidavit of what the local PD uses which matches what I use.

I am not saying this has happened, nor that it will. I have not done the research. However, I personally would feel better knowing that I have something that could help back me up.
 
Last edited:

golddigger14s

Activist Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,068
Location
Lawton, OK USA
I had a hard time following this statement. What do you mean?

I don't give a second thought about what an attorney might ask me in the aftermath about my ammo. I put the ammo in the gun so I could kill someone with in the horrible chance I would need to. dead is dead. "why did you use such a devastating bullet?" my answer: "I just use bullets".

What I'm talking about is that a lot of people (the CC only people) believe the only way to carry is concealed. They think that if a BG comes into rob a store and sees one of us OCer's that they will take us out first. Even though they can't back up their claims with any proof. I totally agree with your second part about type of ammo.
 

yz9890

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
47
Location
Louisville, KY
What I'm talking about is that a lot of people (the CC only people) believe the only way to carry is concealed. They think that if a BG comes into rob a store and sees one of us OCer's that they will take us out first. Even though they can't back up their claims with any proof. I totally agree with your second part about type of ammo.

I understand now and agree. I'd like to see some data supporting that theory as well. Thanks for the clarification.
 
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