CC in non-allowed places

NMGoose said:

Interesting state to state gun laws. In NM you can carry concealed but with restriction as to where and when. Yet, hearsay, according to ATF you can OC, fully loaded anytime anywhere. However, I would imagine the exceptions might be posted areas and of course bars that serve "hard liquor". The laws are so damn confusing how can anyone understand them. Maybe you do Mr. Atkins but, for the rest of us ?????????????

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Forgive me for being blunt.

OC anytime, anywhere? No- and you can't afford to just "imagine" or listen to hearsay. There is no "might"- there is only "is" if you get my meaning. These are mistakes which could have huge impacts on the remainder of your entire life. They could put you behind bars and leave you a convicted felon, if you're not careful.

The laws are not confusing if you take the time to read them and make sure you understand them. If you want to carry firearms, it is your responsibility to do so as fully informed as you can. If you don't understand the laws, don't carry until you do. It's really that simple.

Have you taken a CCW course? If not, I highly recommend it just for the sake of being more familiar with the laws. Go to the NM DPS site at http://www.dps.nm.org/index.php/nm-concealed-carry/ , follow the links and read the laws- specifically under Concealed Handgun Carry Act of 2005 look for the links to the statutes and rules.

There is no excuse for being ignorant of the laws. There are no gray areas of responsibility, IMO of course.

AH.74 said:

Forgive me for being blunt.
................
There is no excuse for being ignorant of the laws. There are no gray areas of responsibility, IMO of course.

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That is NOT your opinion AH. - it's the law.

NMGoose, regardless of the state, you are REQUIRED to know the law pertaining to firearms carry, if you chose to carry - period. If there's something you're not comfortable with - DON'T CARRY until you KNOW the law.

On top of other things I'm involved in with firearms and firearms law - I founded www.handgunlaw.us in 2006. Between Gary Slider and I, we have created the most up-to-date firearms database on the internet. We provide you information on each state, and links to the office of primary responsibility for each state with phone numbers where available, email addresses for contact to ask questions when something isn't clear to you. Use that resource. You'll notice an absence of a chat or forum on www.handgunlaw.us. That is because we don't want anyone confusing the law, confusing the folks trying their best to understand - for example, NM law - and having someone from, say, IL drop a bomb that misconstrues NM law and sets disagreements in place. All we do is accurate, confirmed and confirmable data. It's a free resource to anyone that wants to protect themselves from liability because they - like you - didn't understand.

I strongly encourage you to use it. Remember, there are numerous violations in the law from state to state that can make you a FELON in a heartbeat - losing your right to carry.

ADDED: I know your instructor NMGoose. There is no way on this planet that I believe for a second that Tom didn't clearly explain the law here. I would suggest you contact him if there's something that he didn't make clear to you - though I can't imagine how that could possibly be. Tom is not just an instructor - he's also a very knowledgable NRA Training Counselor, we went to school together.

Steve Aikens

Yes, I do have my CCL and have already taken the 2 year refresher, or re-cert, whatever it is called. Anyway, yes, Tom did explain the NM laws to the best of his ability but just in my own mind I have to think and wonder "what if", it's just my nature. I hear and I read what the law says but as everyone knows, LAW is written words open to interpretation by the legal community. I am not part of that legal community but, I am required to comply with whatever that "interpretation" may be by the police, the lawyers or a judge. Therefore, I ask the questions to try and understand what the "interpretation" may be for different situations (what if's). I also ask to try and find out if ANYONE has experience in these "what if" situations and how was the LAW interpreted (or how it could be interpreted) and applied in that specific case.

I don't care about other states unless I happen to visit one. All I care about is how the LAW applies to me living right here in New Mexico. You read the words, I read the words, you interpret, I interpret but, again it is all down to how the police, lawyers and the judge interpret. The LAWS state how one or a few interpret the intent and meaning but do not provide any information or discussion (or examples) on how the law was or can be interpreted to apply to everyone that has to comply with them.

I hear what you're saying but I don't completely agree. In this case, the laws in question are rather straightforward. Therefore I feel there is little or no room for interpretation.

If you have examples, I'd like to see what you think are some of the things open to interpretation.

If you follow the letter of what the law says, there really should be no grey areas.

AH.74 said:

I hear what you're saying but I don't completely agree. In this case, the laws in question are rather straightforward. Therefore I feel there is little or no room for interpretation.

If you have examples, I'd like to see what you think are some of the things open to interpretation.

If you follow the letter of what the law says, there really should be no grey areas.

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I cannot site a specific case because I don't know of any but the way my mind works, here is a hypothetical example:

You are in a restaurant eating, someone comes in and starts shooting up the place. There is a door behind you however, you choose to return fire to hopefully prevent yourself or anyone from being killed or stop from additional persons being killed or injured. Now my question is, would the legal interpretation, for this instance, be that you are justified in shooting the assailant to protect yourself and others or would it be interpreted that you had the option to leave through the other door and call police thus saving your own life and therefore, was not justified to return fire?

Just thought of another "what if" situation.

I walk into a 7/11, Circle K or whatever. There is no sign on the door stating anything about weapons not allowed. I go to a cooler to buy a soda and there on the wall above the cooler for beer is a sign, "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED". I then turn to leave because I know I am not allowed to have my weapons in this place of business. As I approach the door someone comes in to rob the place. He points a gun at me, I feel threatened and shoot him. According to the LAW I am allowed to protect myself and hence the shooting would be justified. But the LAW also says I cannot carry in a place that has a sign posted (and as has been stated in this forum doesn't matter where it is located it still applies) I will now be convicted of a felony. So what is it, am I allowed to protect myself or am I only allowed to die because I am not suppose to have a gun in this location?

In that case if you shot back it would be a very justifiable case of self-defense and defense of others- lives are in jeopardy right then and there and someone is actually shooting. You were in fear for your life and those with you.

Regarding the door- in NM there is no duty to retreat, anywhere you have the legal right to be. In other words you do not have to seek escape as a first option.

Thanks for the insight.

Just my opinion and I guess everyone has on. Anyway, I feel the gun laws are way too restrictive. I do believe everyone that intends to carry should be required to be trained and licensed before they are sold a gun. However, to be restricted as to where you can carry and the LAW related to it is a little uncalled for. For instance, the fear that if someone carries a gun into a bar they are automatically going to get drunk and start shooting. I disagree with that idea. First of all, if someone is trained and licensed I feel they would have better control than that. If a person is of that character they should not be allowed to have a gun in the first place. And it doesn't matter if it is allowed or not a person of this character is generally the same as a criminal and the LAW doesn't matter to them anyway. So, why should all have to suffer for a few? Just saying...

Not saying that everyone going into a bar is carrying and getting drunk.But I think if you drink and carry its as bad as driving and drinking.Plus you know if a cop stops you just for a suspicion of drunk coming out of a bar and smells booze on you and your carrying, god theres going to be a problem.Cops do camp out by bars around here. I dont go to bars if I need to drink I fall down at home.