Batousaii
Regular Member
imported post
heya Goal,
- I understand your premise, however, what i said was that there is a "very slim" chance of surprising an offender. I also said absolutelyzero percent advantage exists over this mythical "surprise factor" (when comparing CC to OC.)
- Simply put, your either engaged with the offender, or your not. If your not engaged, then you have a chance to surprise the offender, and being CC or OC will not enhance your ability to surprise the offender. If you are however engaged, your chance of surprise will be greatly limited, and if CC, you have to hope, same as OC, that your ability to draw and fire will be faster than his ability to react, and either way, there is a high chance you will still get shot (or shot at) , probably both of you will be shot at. Realise here, that people do not get thrown back, nor do they always goinstantly unconscious or die from being shot. The sight of an offender being shot, and standing there with a "WTF" look on his face can be very eye opening. Even with rifles, this can be the case, please note the 5.56 rounds ballistics, and read some feedback from soldiers (or former)other than myself to cite this phenomenon.
Ballistically speaking, unless you get a square shot to the offenders brain, the chance of him firing the weapon, even if as a reflex, is unfortunately high. Thus one would probably get shot (or shot at), even if we got the gun out and shot him first. The realistic chance of shooting an engaged and focused offender without being shot atourselves is slim. This also assumes you are in close proximity, as is common in a mugging or personal attack. I do however see and acknowledge the slim chance of surprise... example, being ina store, and the offender has not realised your there. This too, would not change the surprise factor in OC v CC. Simply put, if the offender has seen you, he will try to control your efforts. If in that scenario, being controlled, the offender will indeed be in a heightened state of alert and awareness. Whether you are trying to sneak the gun out from under your cloths, or quick draw your OC weapon, you would have a very slim chance, and i'd say either would "surprise" the offender equally so, as the only real surprise would be him being shot, not necessarily the production of a victims weapon. Also note, in this day and age, the chance of being brutally beaten before any demands are actually made are very high. Criminals have become more violent, more intense, and some dont actually want anything other than to hurt people for their own pleasure.
To end, i OC as much as i can, but i do CC where or when it is prudent. Having been shootingguns since i was 12 (now 41), 6 years Infantry, and shot even more guns and countless thousands of rounds as a civilian, i would firmly state: You are either armed or not. The only thing contingent on ones ability to surprise an offender is how focus the offender is upon you, and how fast you can think and act under extreme life threatening stress. Being CC or OC rarely plays role in this.
What might one feel when suddenly thrust into a violent life threatening scenario against an attacker? Random Impulsive reactions, run, scream, yell, fight, freeze, pass out. Many experience loss of coordination, weakness, Dizziness, tunnel vision, weapon focus (cant take eyes off attacker weapon), Time distortion (feeling like slow motion - or it's all happening too fast), nausea, vomiting, memory loss distortion, wild random emotions. ~ NOTE: everyone is different, and not everyone feels all or any of these. However, the likely hoodone will be subjected to at least some of theseaffects areincredibly high, and though invarrying degrees depending on the person, you simply wont be yourself at that moment.
So note the paragraph above, and i will mention. Most people will react the way they have trained. When confronted with deadly violence, your brain will go into fail-safe mode. Your brain will say "this is the scenario" - then it will search ultra fast for a programmed response (training). If none is available, it will pick a random response and one or some of the above stated reactions will come into play. This is of course contingent upon one's own intestinal fortitude, how well you personally can deal with that level of stress, and how easily you can think while dealing with extreme duress. So, then, ask yourself, how sneaky do you believe you can be under these circumstances. Most people postulate these events while they are calm, dreaming up scenarios (well if this happens, i would just do this or that!). Reality is simply, you will not usually be thinking for yourself in these situations. Your training, instinct and impulse will be thinking for you. Your mental and intestinal fortitude will help, and will modify the adverse affects, but you will still rely heavily on training, instinct and impulse.
As my last note, please do not take any of this as an insult, or as an affront or a challenge to your intelligence. I simply know alot about ballistics, combat, guns, and have pretty good understanding of the human psyche, especially as it pertains to combat or extreme duress.
Kindly
Bat.
heya Goal,
- I understand your premise, however, what i said was that there is a "very slim" chance of surprising an offender. I also said absolutelyzero percent advantage exists over this mythical "surprise factor" (when comparing CC to OC.)
- Simply put, your either engaged with the offender, or your not. If your not engaged, then you have a chance to surprise the offender, and being CC or OC will not enhance your ability to surprise the offender. If you are however engaged, your chance of surprise will be greatly limited, and if CC, you have to hope, same as OC, that your ability to draw and fire will be faster than his ability to react, and either way, there is a high chance you will still get shot (or shot at) , probably both of you will be shot at. Realise here, that people do not get thrown back, nor do they always goinstantly unconscious or die from being shot. The sight of an offender being shot, and standing there with a "WTF" look on his face can be very eye opening. Even with rifles, this can be the case, please note the 5.56 rounds ballistics, and read some feedback from soldiers (or former)other than myself to cite this phenomenon.
Ballistically speaking, unless you get a square shot to the offenders brain, the chance of him firing the weapon, even if as a reflex, is unfortunately high. Thus one would probably get shot (or shot at), even if we got the gun out and shot him first. The realistic chance of shooting an engaged and focused offender without being shot atourselves is slim. This also assumes you are in close proximity, as is common in a mugging or personal attack. I do however see and acknowledge the slim chance of surprise... example, being ina store, and the offender has not realised your there. This too, would not change the surprise factor in OC v CC. Simply put, if the offender has seen you, he will try to control your efforts. If in that scenario, being controlled, the offender will indeed be in a heightened state of alert and awareness. Whether you are trying to sneak the gun out from under your cloths, or quick draw your OC weapon, you would have a very slim chance, and i'd say either would "surprise" the offender equally so, as the only real surprise would be him being shot, not necessarily the production of a victims weapon. Also note, in this day and age, the chance of being brutally beaten before any demands are actually made are very high. Criminals have become more violent, more intense, and some dont actually want anything other than to hurt people for their own pleasure.
To end, i OC as much as i can, but i do CC where or when it is prudent. Having been shootingguns since i was 12 (now 41), 6 years Infantry, and shot even more guns and countless thousands of rounds as a civilian, i would firmly state: You are either armed or not. The only thing contingent on ones ability to surprise an offender is how focus the offender is upon you, and how fast you can think and act under extreme life threatening stress. Being CC or OC rarely plays role in this.
What might one feel when suddenly thrust into a violent life threatening scenario against an attacker? Random Impulsive reactions, run, scream, yell, fight, freeze, pass out. Many experience loss of coordination, weakness, Dizziness, tunnel vision, weapon focus (cant take eyes off attacker weapon), Time distortion (feeling like slow motion - or it's all happening too fast), nausea, vomiting, memory loss distortion, wild random emotions. ~ NOTE: everyone is different, and not everyone feels all or any of these. However, the likely hoodone will be subjected to at least some of theseaffects areincredibly high, and though invarrying degrees depending on the person, you simply wont be yourself at that moment.
So note the paragraph above, and i will mention. Most people will react the way they have trained. When confronted with deadly violence, your brain will go into fail-safe mode. Your brain will say "this is the scenario" - then it will search ultra fast for a programmed response (training). If none is available, it will pick a random response and one or some of the above stated reactions will come into play. This is of course contingent upon one's own intestinal fortitude, how well you personally can deal with that level of stress, and how easily you can think while dealing with extreme duress. So, then, ask yourself, how sneaky do you believe you can be under these circumstances. Most people postulate these events while they are calm, dreaming up scenarios (well if this happens, i would just do this or that!). Reality is simply, you will not usually be thinking for yourself in these situations. Your training, instinct and impulse will be thinking for you. Your mental and intestinal fortitude will help, and will modify the adverse affects, but you will still rely heavily on training, instinct and impulse.
As my last note, please do not take any of this as an insult, or as an affront or a challenge to your intelligence. I simply know alot about ballistics, combat, guns, and have pretty good understanding of the human psyche, especially as it pertains to combat or extreme duress.
Kindly
Bat.