REALteach4u
Regular Member
Do I have a problem with informing anyway? Yes.
Should departments train their LEOs to better deal with lawful carry? Yes.
Do I tell students to do it regardless? Yes. See my why explanation below. I also explain that they do not have to unless asked.
Do I notify regardless? Yes.
Does every encounter merit disclosure? No, but put yourself in the shoes of that LEO.
Recording device? Should be standard equipment.
What would YOUR reaction be if you found out later that the citizen was armed and wasn't courteous enough to tell you. After all, they inform us by wearing openly don't they. (yes, that's an argument FOR open carry) I promise you that if you didn't know the person and had no reason to run that person for warrants that your brain will run wild. It's tough to maintain a calm mindset of: it was probably just lawful carry. Think about it from the LEO perspective. If they treat every encounter as lawful carry the criminals will be able to mount more attacks upon LEOs and the citizenry. If they don't treat them as lawful carry they can become hyper-vigilant and that creates a problem on the other end of the spectrum. There truly is no middle ground. Middle ground means the LEO would need to profile behaviors, clothing, and the relative crime stats within their service area.
Why do I notify? Because it sets me in the pattern (muscle memory) of notifying upon contact with a LEO so that if I happen to be in a State that has a mandatory notification law I will not have to worry about knowing, I'll already be in that mode.
Now if any of us are the kinds of idiots that inform to the the presence of a firearm...or use the term GUN when disclosing,rather than simply the presence of a CCW endorsement (might vary in other States, so habits can become a problem) then you likely deserve to be treated like an idiot for the manner you chose to inform. Simply tell the LEO that you have a concealed carry permit IF you're carrying or transporting.
That said, I do believe that mandatory notification laws need to disappear as they set up the lawful carrier for potential criminal charges. After all, most people will get nervous while carrying when a LEO contact occurs. It takes a few turns on the merry-go-round to overcome that nervousness. Do not mistake a disrespectful attitude and langauge choice (cockiness) with nervousness, the two are not the same.
Besides, if you happen upon the diligent LEO, they'll already know through this process:
Cause for the stop.
Run the plate.
Run the registered driver for wants, identify a potential of CCW. (easier for Mo licensed drivers than in some other States)
The number on your DL and your CCW endorsement, even if on separate cards, are the same number. The two are linked within the DOR. So if you get that diligent LEO they'll already know before they ever approach the vehicle, which should prompt the immediate: "Driver's license please. (if it's the RO, then it's simple) I noticed you have a CCW endorsement. Is a firearm present in the vehicle?" If that LEO is professional he or she should simply ask you to state where.
Should departments train their LEOs to better deal with lawful carry? Yes.
Do I tell students to do it regardless? Yes. See my why explanation below. I also explain that they do not have to unless asked.
Do I notify regardless? Yes.
Does every encounter merit disclosure? No, but put yourself in the shoes of that LEO.
Recording device? Should be standard equipment.
What would YOUR reaction be if you found out later that the citizen was armed and wasn't courteous enough to tell you. After all, they inform us by wearing openly don't they. (yes, that's an argument FOR open carry) I promise you that if you didn't know the person and had no reason to run that person for warrants that your brain will run wild. It's tough to maintain a calm mindset of: it was probably just lawful carry. Think about it from the LEO perspective. If they treat every encounter as lawful carry the criminals will be able to mount more attacks upon LEOs and the citizenry. If they don't treat them as lawful carry they can become hyper-vigilant and that creates a problem on the other end of the spectrum. There truly is no middle ground. Middle ground means the LEO would need to profile behaviors, clothing, and the relative crime stats within their service area.
Why do I notify? Because it sets me in the pattern (muscle memory) of notifying upon contact with a LEO so that if I happen to be in a State that has a mandatory notification law I will not have to worry about knowing, I'll already be in that mode.
Now if any of us are the kinds of idiots that inform to the the presence of a firearm...or use the term GUN when disclosing,rather than simply the presence of a CCW endorsement (might vary in other States, so habits can become a problem) then you likely deserve to be treated like an idiot for the manner you chose to inform. Simply tell the LEO that you have a concealed carry permit IF you're carrying or transporting.
That said, I do believe that mandatory notification laws need to disappear as they set up the lawful carrier for potential criminal charges. After all, most people will get nervous while carrying when a LEO contact occurs. It takes a few turns on the merry-go-round to overcome that nervousness. Do not mistake a disrespectful attitude and langauge choice (cockiness) with nervousness, the two are not the same.
Besides, if you happen upon the diligent LEO, they'll already know through this process:
Cause for the stop.
Run the plate.
Run the registered driver for wants, identify a potential of CCW. (easier for Mo licensed drivers than in some other States)
The number on your DL and your CCW endorsement, even if on separate cards, are the same number. The two are linked within the DOR. So if you get that diligent LEO they'll already know before they ever approach the vehicle, which should prompt the immediate: "Driver's license please. (if it's the RO, then it's simple) I noticed you have a CCW endorsement. Is a firearm present in the vehicle?" If that LEO is professional he or she should simply ask you to state where.
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