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Someone in Texas but wants to know ...
- Thread starter JBarL
- Start date
TheQ
Regular Member
Do you have a Texas concealed weapon's license? (or any state's license, for that matter)...
TheQ
Regular Member
In this case, you are legal to OC in MI. For the most part, I wouldn't expect much hassle. Most jurisdictions are on board with the legality of OC.
xd shooter
Regular Member
The implication here is that you have to have a CPL from another state to OC in Michigan, is that correct?
dougwg
Regular Member
From your home state, YES.
If you live in Ohio and have a PA license you're a no go in Michigan.
stainless1911
Banned
IIRC you will still be subject to the federal 1,000 foot gun free school zones.
Apparently, they like making headlines about school shootings, it makes good press, and is a great way to blame gun owners for something else we didn't do.
Apparently, they like making headlines about school shootings, it makes good press, and is a great way to blame gun owners for something else we didn't do.
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
For concealed carry, but not for OC. If you have a CPL from a state other than your own, you can possess a handgun and OC in Michigan. Janet Kukuk law.
xmanhockey7
Regular Member
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2010
- Messages
- 1,195
28.432 Inapplicability of MCL 28.422; citation as “Janet Kukuk act”.
Sec. 12. (1) Section 2 does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A police or correctional agency of the United States or of this state or any subdivision of this state.
(b) The United States army, air force, navy, or marine corps.
(c) An organization authorized by law to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state.
(d) The national guard, armed forces reserves, or other duly authorized military organization.
(e) A member of an entity or organization described in subdivisions (a) through (d) for a pistol while engaged in the course
of his or her duties with that entity or while going to or returning from those duties.
(f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by another state.
(g) The regular and ordinary transportation of a pistol as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms or a licensed dealer.
(h) Purchasing, owning, carrying, possessing, using, or transporting an antique firearm. As used in this subdivision, “antique
firearm” means that term as defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.
(i) An individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting a pistol belonging to another individual, if the other individual’s possession of the pistol is authorized by law and the individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting the pistol has obtained a license under section 5b to carry a concealed pistol or is exempt from licensure as provided in section 12a.
(2) The amendatory act that added subsection (1)(h) shall be known and may be cited as the “Janet Kukuk act”.
All they would need is a permit from any state to be able to open carry here. They could not open carry in a car, however, they would be exempt from:
750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that
firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
Sec. 12. (1) Section 2 does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A police or correctional agency of the United States or of this state or any subdivision of this state.
(b) The United States army, air force, navy, or marine corps.
(c) An organization authorized by law to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state.
(d) The national guard, armed forces reserves, or other duly authorized military organization.
(e) A member of an entity or organization described in subdivisions (a) through (d) for a pistol while engaged in the course
of his or her duties with that entity or while going to or returning from those duties.
(f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by another state.
(g) The regular and ordinary transportation of a pistol as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms or a licensed dealer.
(h) Purchasing, owning, carrying, possessing, using, or transporting an antique firearm. As used in this subdivision, “antique
firearm” means that term as defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.
(i) An individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting a pistol belonging to another individual, if the other individual’s possession of the pistol is authorized by law and the individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting the pistol has obtained a license under section 5b to carry a concealed pistol or is exempt from licensure as provided in section 12a.
(2) The amendatory act that added subsection (1)(h) shall be known and may be cited as the “Janet Kukuk act”.
All they would need is a permit from any state to be able to open carry here. They could not open carry in a car, however, they would be exempt from:
750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that
firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
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Thanks all for the replies it was very Helpful. I just wanna be clear on the Laws they differ from State to State. Now if I can only get My State to make a law on Open Carry that would be better. but we Are trying. Just the politions make you wanna:banghead:
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Not only that, but as a holder of a Texas Residential permit, you may also OC in areas that are no concealed carry zones. See: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf
"MCL 28.425o provides that a person with a valid
CPL shall not carry a concealed pistol in a pistolfree zone.
First offense is a state civil infraction.
The following is a list of the premises (excluding
parking lots) included in the statute:
School or school property, except a parent or
legal guardian who is dropping off or picking up a
child and the pistol is kept in the vehicle
Public or private day care center
Sports arena or stadium
A bar or tavern where sale and consumption of
liquor by the glass is the primary source of
income (does not apply to owner or employee of
the business).
Any property or facility owned or operated by a
church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other
place of worship, unless authorized by the
presiding official
An entertainment facility that has a seating
capacity of 2,500 or more
A hospital
A dormitory or classroom of a community college,
college, or university
A casino (R 432.1212, MCL 432.202)
Note, the above statute applies to CPL holders
carrying a concealed pistol. If the CPL holder is
carrying a non-concealed pistol, the statute does
not apply. As noted above, the unlawful
premises listed in MCL 750.234d do not apply to
persons with a valid CPL. Therefore, a person
with a valid CPL may carry a non-concealed
pistol in the areas described in
MCL 28.425o (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(fgtwtkajlwxrvorwa1s05hvt))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-28-425o.pdf)
and MCL 750.234d. (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(0ah5ep452dx3bmf3bpfido45))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-750-234d.pdf) "
"MCL 28.425o provides that a person with a valid
CPL shall not carry a concealed pistol in a pistolfree zone.
First offense is a state civil infraction.
The following is a list of the premises (excluding
parking lots) included in the statute:
School or school property, except a parent or
legal guardian who is dropping off or picking up a
child and the pistol is kept in the vehicle
Public or private day care center
Sports arena or stadium
A bar or tavern where sale and consumption of
liquor by the glass is the primary source of
income (does not apply to owner or employee of
the business).
Any property or facility owned or operated by a
church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other
place of worship, unless authorized by the
presiding official
An entertainment facility that has a seating
capacity of 2,500 or more
A hospital
A dormitory or classroom of a community college,
college, or university
A casino (R 432.1212, MCL 432.202)
Note, the above statute applies to CPL holders
carrying a concealed pistol. If the CPL holder is
carrying a non-concealed pistol, the statute does
not apply. As noted above, the unlawful
premises listed in MCL 750.234d do not apply to
persons with a valid CPL. Therefore, a person
with a valid CPL may carry a non-concealed
pistol in the areas described in
MCL 28.425o (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(fgtwtkajlwxrvorwa1s05hvt))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-28-425o.pdf)
and MCL 750.234d. (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(0ah5ep452dx3bmf3bpfido45))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-750-234d.pdf) "
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xd shooter
Regular Member
Now I'm a bit confused...
Can a non-resident OPEN Carry w/o ANY permit/license, whatever? Or is a non-resident required to have a CPL of some sort to OPEN carry?
Cite's please..
Can a non-resident OPEN Carry w/o ANY permit/license, whatever? Or is a non-resident required to have a CPL of some sort to OPEN carry?
Cite's please..
xd shooter
Regular Member
Bronson
Regular Member
Now I'm a bit confused...
Can a non-resident OPEN Carry w/o ANY permit/license, whatever? Or is a non-resident required to have a CPL of some sort to OPEN carry?
Cite's please..
No and no.
A non-MI resident must meet the exemptions in either 28.422 or 28.432 in order to OC under the same restrictions as a MI resident that does NOT have a CPL.
28.422
28.432
Either of the exemptions listed in these two laws will allow a non-MI resident to possess a pistol in MI without having to get a MI Permit to Purchase/Possess and register their pistol here, since that is only allowed for MI residents.
Alternately a non-MI resident may carry here under the same laws as a MI resident with a CPL if the non-resident has a concealed license from his/her state of residence.
MCL 750.227 is the law that criminalizes concealed carry or vehicle carry without a concealed license.
While MCL 750.231a provides a list of exceptions to .227.
So a non-MI resident must have some form of license in order to OC here but it doesn't have to be a resident concealed license from their home state. However the resident license from their home state affords them more options since MI treats it the same as a MI resident license.
This is why we have the ridiculous situation where a VT resident, where there is no licensing of any kind to purchase, carry, or possess a pistol however you wish, cannot carry a pistol here unless he/she gets a non-resident CPL from some other state, while a resident of the Peoples Republik of Illinois that has a FOID card may OC their pistol in MI under the same restrictions as a MI resident that doesn't have a CPL.
Bronson
Bronson
Regular Member
You are correct but when most people refer to the "Janet Kukuk act" they are referring to 28.432 in its entirety, which as you noticed isn't quite right.
Bronson
xd shooter
Regular Member
Wow... And I understand now.
MI requires some sort of documentation, whether it's a license to purchase (as in the one MI requires if you do not have a CPL) or some form of CPL from your home State, and a non-resident CPL will suffice if OPEN carrying... ((a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
In this case, a VT resident can OPEN carry in MI with a UTAH CFP.
No wonder LEO is confused...
As you have a VERY good grasp on these statutes, care to tackle my Other question? http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?92643-Janet-Kukuk-Act
MI requires some sort of documentation, whether it's a license to purchase (as in the one MI requires if you do not have a CPL) or some form of CPL from your home State, and a non-resident CPL will suffice if OPEN carrying... ((a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
In this case, a VT resident can OPEN carry in MI with a UTAH CFP.
No wonder LEO is confused...
As you have a VERY good grasp on these statutes, care to tackle my Other question? http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?92643-Janet-Kukuk-Act
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Wow... And I understand now.
MI requires some sort of documentation, whether it's a license to purchase (as in the one MI requires if you do not have a CPL) or some form of CPL from your home State, and a non-resident CPL will suffice if OPEN carrying... ((a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
In this case, a VT resident can OPEN carry in MI with a UTAH CFP.
No wonder LEO is confused...
As you have a VERY good grasp on these statutes, care to tackle my Other question? http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?92643-Janet-Kukuk-Act
If you are a Michigan Resident you must follow Michigan law and register the pistol (Purchase Permit) to be legal in Michigan.
xd shooter
Regular Member
Even though MCL 28.432 declares MCL 28.422 inapplicable because I am a US citizen and have a CFP from Utah?
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Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
The statute is ripe for constitutional challege. This has been discussed. No one seems interested in doing so yet and all it would take is a $1,000,000 or so.
If you have a warchest in place, then challenge it.
I'm surprised residents of nearby states haven't done so yet.
stainless1911
Banned
Its the million dollar part that really bugs me.