open carry vs concealed carry? what defines concealed?

Wisconsin now has open carry as it always has and now concealed carry,if you have the permit.
So ,must the weapon be totally out of sight to be considered concealed carry and if any part of it is visible ,is it then that you are open carrying which has totally different regulations on where you can legally carry?
Or ,if I have a concealed carry permit,does it mean I then can carry it hidden,or in view on a side holster,or however I choose to, and it falls within the concealed carry rules?
Why this makes a difference is ,for example,With concealed carry it states you cannot go on school grounds.With open carry it states you actually have to stay within 1000 feet of the school property line.So if I am carrying concealed I can walk past a school on a sidewalk.If I am open carrying I cannot get within 1000feet of the school property line.
So if I have a concealed carry permit and the gun is in a side holster,am I then subject to follow open carry rules and stay within 1000 feet of the school or will it then fall into concealed carry guidelines ?


Or have the open carry rules changed recently perhaps since I was here last?

Have you read the DOJ-FAQ? If not, I would start there.

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ccw-faq-20111020.pdf

You can Open Carry anywhere you can Conceal Carry.

In other words, your license does not require you to carry concealed but allows you to carry concealed if you wish. So long as you are a licensee, you may carry openly within a GFSZ just not on school grounds

We carry firearms or pistols or sidearms and CC licenses.

revolverrandy said:

Wisconsin now has open carry as it always has and now concealed carry,if you have the permit.
So ,must the weapon be totally out of sight to be considered concealed carry and if any part of it is visible ,is it then that you are open carrying which has totally different regulations on where you can legally carry?
Or ,if I have a concealed carry permit,does it mean I then can carry it hidden,or in view on a side holster,or however I choose to, and it falls within the concealed carry rules?
Why this makes a difference is ,for example,With concealed carry it states you cannot go on school grounds.With open carry it states you actually have to stay within 1000 feet of the school property line.So if I am carrying concealed I can walk past a school on a sidewalk.If I am open carrying I cannot get within 1000feet of the school property line.
So if I have a concealed carry permit and the gun is in a side holster,am I then subject to follow open carry rules and stay within 1000 feet of the school or will it then fall into concealed carry guidelines ?


Or have the open carry rules changed recently perhaps since I was here last?

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The concealed carry license allows you to:

1. Conceal.
2. Carry (open or concealed) in non-posted government (certain exceptions) buildings.
3. Carry (open or concealed) in bars without specific permission (assuming no posting).
4. Carry (open or concealed) in the 1000' school zone. Touching school property is a Class I felony with or without a license
5. Carry (open or concealed) in a state park, hatchery.
6. Conceal in a car

So... it is mislabeled. While it does allow concealed carry, it expands the places where on can open carry.

The law is rather specific that it does not restrict open carry in any way more than conceal carry.

I practice 'casual carry'. In other words, I have an OC holster and if my shirt/jacket happens to cover all or some of the firearm, so be it.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

I practice 'casual carry'. In other words, I have an OC holster and if my shirt/jacket happens to cover all or some of the firearm, so be it.

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That's the ticket. I'll mostly be doing this as well unless I need deep concealment.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

I practice 'casual carry'. In other words, I have an OC holster and if my shirt/jacket happens to cover all or some of the firearm, so be it.

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This is what I'm doing during winter. In summer I'll probably use my MTAC.

The only problem I have with "casual carry" as I see Paul coined it; is that IMHO, it's more likely to result in a MWAG call if it's not done with a little care. What I mean is that I think it's better off either being completely open or completely concealed. I've been carrying everywhere I can since getting the CWL and lately it's been mostly with an OWB Serpa for comfort BUT I've got a jacket that completely covers the holster. So, when I'm wearing the jacket I'm CC and when I'm not, I'm OC.

What I'm trying to say is that if someone sees it out in the open they know you aren't trying to hide it. If someone doesn't see it at all, they don't even think about it. If someone isn't quite sure but thinks they saw something they might believe you are trying to be sneaky about it.

With winter hitting fast it'll be mostly CC for me but thanks to having to wear a heavy jacket I'll only need to wear my crossbreed CC holster when I go to places that don't really want OC. For example, relatives homes. When summer comes back I'll probably be mostly OC.

Brass Magnet said:

The only problem I have with "casual carry" as I see Paul coined it; is that IMHO, it's more likely to result in a MWAG call if it's not done with a little care. What I mean is that I think it's better off either being completely open or completely concealed. I've been carrying everywhere I can since getting the CWL and lately it's been mostly with an OWB Serpa for comfort BUT I've got a jacket that completely covers the holster. So, when I'm wearing the jacket I'm CC and when I'm not, I'm OC.

What I'm trying to say is that if someone sees it out in the open they know you aren't trying to hide it. If someone doesn't see it at all, they don't even think about it. If someone isn't quite sure but thinks they saw something they might believe you are trying to be sneaky about it.

With winter hitting fast it'll be mostly CC for me but thanks to having to wear a heavy jacket I'll only need to wear my crossbreed CC holster when I go to places that don't really want OC. For example, relatives homes. When summer comes back I'll probably be mostly OC.

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However. The person who would do a MWAG call seeing your "casual" carry, would also very likely MWAG call if you were fully open carry. I can't think of any person who would do a MWAG call that would call for one but not the other.

Brass Magnet said:

The only problem I have with "casual carry" as I see Paul coined it; is that IMHO, it's more likely to result in a MWAG call if it's not done with a little care. What I mean is that I think it's better off either being completely open or completely concealed. I've been carrying everywhere I can since getting the CWL and lately it's been mostly with an OWB Serpa for comfort BUT I've got a jacket that completely covers the holster. So, when I'm wearing the jacket I'm CC and when I'm not, I'm OC.

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Are you sure Paul coined it? I have carried casually at different levels and I was trying to think of terms for each. Maybe Paul can help me. I have carried my XD-45 in a Seprpa at 3:00 where a little jacket of coat will coneal it. No jacket, then it is open. That is what I assume Paul is calling 'casual carry'. But I also carry my PT145 in a High Ride-OWB at 4:00 where a big enough shirt not tucked in will coneal it. If I take the shirt off, then I am open carrying, but with this mode of carry, it is alot easier to discretely conceal a little deeper than 'casual carry'. Is there a term for that?

Brass Magnet said:

What I'm trying to say is that if someone sees it out in the open they know you aren't trying to hide it. If someone doesn't see it at all, they don't even think about it. If someone isn't quite sure but thinks they saw something they might believe you are trying to be sneaky about it.

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I think you worry too much, unless you happen to be in a Costco.:uhoh:

BROKENSPROKET said:

Are you sure Paul coined it?

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I stole it from someone in Madison on 11/1, was it you?

BROKENSPROKET said:

But I also carry my PT145...

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OT, but I have no shame...

How do you like this pistol? I have a PT111 and love it. But I'm currently considering a G36 as it's known to be a slim concealer. The G36 and PT145 are close in size I believe, and the PT145 appeals to me more due to the 10+1 versus 6+1 of the G36.

With The License I Will Just "Carry"....And...Question About The PT 145?!

BROKENSPROKET said:

Are you sure Paul coined it? I have carried casually at different levels and I was trying to think of terms for each. Maybe Paul can help me. I have carried my XD-45 in a Seprpa at 3:00 where a little jacket of coat will coneal it. No jacket, then it is open. That is what I assume Paul is calling 'casual carry'. But I also carry my PT145 in a High Ride-OWB at 4:00 where a big enough shirt not tucked in will coneal it. If I take the shirt off, then I am open carrying, but with this mode of carry, it is alot easier to discretely conceal a little deeper than 'casual carry'. Is there a term for that?


I think you worry too much, unless you happen to be in a Costco.:uhoh:

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I agree, don't worry much about it. Sooner or later some of us WILL have police interaction due to someone calling 911 "MWAG".... Around my home now I wear a light wind breaker which sometimes covers all but the lower portion of my Glock or doesn't cover any of it if the wind breaker happens to open fully. I'm not going to worry about it. The law does not state that we must conceal or openly carry in any situation (I'm assuming the person has a license to legally conceal or open carry where a license is required...I.E. GFSZ's). That is a good thing since some states DO specify complete covering of the firearm for concealed carry and some states have "no printing" as well. Be thankful that we don't have that to deal with.

One thing for all of us to keep in mind: When any of us uses the Wisconsin license or any other concealed carry license in another state I hope all of us peruse the laws of that state about concealed and open carry. Handgunlaw.us is a great place to get the laws for the state you are traveling in. Keep in mind that some states even disallow concealed carry at rest stops. Be aware...don't commit a crime in another state because you didn't know the laws.


Greg, question about the PT145: How do you like it!? I was looking at one and thought it sure is a good price for such a small .45ACP firearm. Your thoughts?

Trip20 said:

OT, but I have no shame...

How do you like this pistol? I have a PT111 and love it. But I'm currently considering a G36 as it's known to be a slim concealer. The G36 and PT145 are close in size I believe, and the PT145 appeals to me more due to the 10+1 versus 6+1 of the G36.

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I love it. 10+1 in .45ACP is huge for a CC gun. It fits my hands comfortably and fires very well.

The gun is not huge, the aspect of 10+1 .45ACP in a CC gun is.

Trip20, I Carry A Glock 36 Daily....Love It!

Trip20 said:

OT, but I have no shame...

How do you like this pistol? I have a PT111 and love it. But I'm currently considering a G36 as it's known to be a slim concealer. The G36 and PT145 are close in size I believe, and the PT145 appeals to me more due to the 10+1 versus 6+1 of the G36.

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I carry my Glock 36 daily. I've added the Pierce grip extender to two of my magazines so I actually have 7+1 rounds of .45 ACP. I have looked (online) at the PT 145 and also wondered how it handles. I have a Taurus Pro/DS in .45 ACP (12+1) and carried it for about a week before deciding not to use it for my carry weapon. The Taurus I have is a great gun but after wearing it for hours on end it causes back pain. It's too heavy for me. So....I'm donating it to my son the next time I see him.

I've carried my Glock 36 for 8 years now and it has always been a great carry gun. It's rather thin, lightweight and with 7 rounds of .45 ACP the confidence level is high. It rides close to my torso in a Bianchi Evader holster and with practice the draw times are minimal. One word of caution though about the Glock 36: It is the red headed step child of Glocks. Getting aftermarket items for it is difficult but can be done with a lot of Internet searching. I replaced the recoil rod assembly with a Wolff assembly and it was difficult to find. Getting a standard length replacement barrel for it (not Glock) is also all but impossible. A Glock 21 barrel will fit but it of course will protrude out the slide. Still, I like the G36 more than any other carry firearm I've ever worn.

Another thought: You may want to look hard at the Glock 30. It's a nice looking gun and it has 10+1 rounds of .45 ACP. It doesn't seem to be much bigger than the G36 with four more rounds of .45 ACP.

bmwguy11 said:

However. The person who would do a MWAG call seeing your "casual" carry, would also very likely MWAG call if you were fully open carry. I can't think of any person who would do a MWAG call that would call for one but not the other.

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Outside of our circle very few are aware of the laws. Some don't even know we have CC yet and I found one of those the other day! I understand your point but I'm just expressing a slight; albeit valid IMO, concern. How many times has someone asked "are you a cop" for instance? I think just about everyone here has gotten that gem before. That's why I think full open is better than badly concealed.

BROKENSPROKET said:

Are you sure Paul coined it? I have carried casually at different levels and I was trying to think of terms for each. Maybe Paul can help me. I have carried my XD-45 in a Seprpa at 3:00 where a little jacket of coat will coneal it. No jacket, then it is open. That is what I assume Paul is calling 'casual carry'. But I also carry my PT145 in a High Ride-OWB at 4:00 where a big enough shirt not tucked in will coneal it. If I take the shirt off, then I am open carrying, but with this mode of carry, it is alot easier to discretely conceal a little deeper than 'casual carry'. Is there a term for that?


I think you worry too much, unless you happen to be in a Costco.:uhoh:

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I'm not really worrying, just giving my humble opinion but the Costco incident does give my concern greater weight. If his gun had been carried open they may have just thought he was a cop and if it was completely concealed they never would have known.

I wear mine about 3:30 with a forward cant which works best for me both with my OC and CC rigs. I can conceal easily as it doesn't make me look fatter than I already am. I'm still working on car carry though as 3:30 doesn't work too well there. I'm thinking about a truck mount or a cross draw.

P.S. Please don't take your shirt off!

Brass Magnet said:

P.S. Please don't take your shirt off!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9QdrGZSmy0

rcawdor57 said:

I carry my Glock 36 daily. I've added the Pierce grip extender to two of my magazines so I actually have 7+1 rounds of .45 ACP. I have looked (online) at the PT 145 and also wondered how it handles. I have a Taurus Pro/DS in .45 ACP (12+1) and carried it for about a week before deciding not to use it for my carry weapon. The Taurus I have is a great gun but after wearing it for hours on end it causes back pain. It's too heavy for me. So....I'm donating it to my son the next time I see him.

I've carried my Glock 36 for 8 years now and it has always been a great carry gun. It's rather thin, lightweight and with 7 rounds of .45 ACP the confidence level is high. It rides close to my torso in a Bianchi Evader holster and with practice the draw times are minimal. One word of caution though about the Glock 36: It is the red headed step child of Glocks. Getting aftermarket items for it is difficult but can be done with a lot of Internet searching. I replaced the recoil rod assembly with a Wolff assembly and it was difficult to find. Getting a standard length replacement barrel for it (not Glock) is also all but impossible. A Glock 21 barrel will fit but it of course will protrude out the slide. Still, I like the G36 more than any other carry firearm I've ever worn.

Another thought: You may want to look hard at the Glock 30. It's a nice looking gun and it has 10+1 rounds of .45 ACP. It doesn't seem to be much bigger than the G36 with four more rounds of .45 ACP.

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I have too much invested in custom holsters for my PT145 to switch now. Besides, I love it. The only thing I don't like about it is that in the owner's manual it say to not use +P ammo.

My next gun will something like a Taurus Slim 740 or a Ruger LC9 for deeper concealment.

confusing

So if I get a concealed carry permit I can carry either open or concealed following concealed carry rules?


If someone does not have a concealed carry permit are the rstrictions still same as they were for open carry or do they change withconcealed carry now?


I still do not understand the school zone thing.With a concealed permit ,must I still stay at least 1000 feet away from school property line or just cannot be on school grounds?


And,do I understand his correctly,if I have a concealed carry permit I can enter a tavern with a concealed weapon as long as I am not drinking but cannot open carry in a tavern?

Right now,I still am more confused than ever before and I bet many are.

revolverrandy said:

So if I get a concealed carry permit I can carry either open or concealed following concealed carry rules?


If someone does not have a concealed carry permit are the rstrictions still same as they were for open carry or do they change withconcealed carry now?


I still do not understand the school zone thing.With a concealed permit ,must I still stay at least 1000 feet away from school property line or just cannot be on school grounds?


And,do I understand his correctly,if I have a concealed carry permit I can enter a tavern with a concealed weapon as long as I am not drinking but cannot open carry in a tavern?

Right now,I still am more confused than ever before and I bet many are.

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Please read the DOJ FAQ and did you read my previous reply?