Manasses 7 - Toney's Pizza

IanB said:

Thank you for the trip down memory lane, Citizen. You and I (as well as Grape and others) are part of the original "First 1000" club on the old OCDO site. Those WERE the days, when free wheeling speech was respected on OCDO, you could call a bad cop a bad cop, an OCDO member short of brain cells stupid, and find a place to join in OC camaraderie for dinner. Then, things changed. A whiny cop from POLICEONE (a site restricted to LEO's ONLY, which is closed to viewing by the general public so they can lambaste and talk smack all day long about whoever they want - including OCDO) came on OCDO, a place that was open and allowed free speech, to complain about how rude (and anti-cop) we were to be disparaging his anti-OC views. Instead of supporting its membership, this site bowed down to the cops and instituted restrictions on free speech and tightened up discussions to the point that moderators were deleting ANYTHING that could not be tied DIRECTLY to open carry. Moderation became heavy handed and pushed a lot of good people away. This was all in the spirit of appearing to be happy hand holding friends with the very LEO's who would refuse our OC rights if given a chance to remove them.

That, as older members like Citizen and myself know... was the beginning of the end of the tight knit community that had started, mainly in response to the Manassas incident known as Toney's-7. New rules were implemented that limited our ability to speak our minds. The old timers quit coming to OCDO, OC dinners occurred less frequently, the annual picnic in NoVA fell by the wayside, basically the spirited activists who were the glue of OCDO lost interest. This place is a joke now. It has gone from MOLAN LABE!! to MEHWHATEVER.

I'd imagine THIS post, due to speaking the truth and having some negativity about OCDO, and cops (and not directly about OC'ing) will be edited or removed shortly. My point has been proven if that occurs.

Click to expand...

And if nothing occurs then your point is.....(standby).....pointless.

Spirited activity is an everyday thing in the greater Richmond area as it could and should all over the Commonwealth.

Grapeshot said:

And if nothing occurs then your point is.....(standby).....pointless.

Click to expand...

I've already made my point with my words. Deleting or modifying the post only re-enforces the point being made. There is nothing "pointless" when years of history back me up. Look around, where are all the old timers? What do YOU think drove them away? Did they get busy with life and kids, or... was it something else?

IanB said:

I've already made my point with my words. Deleting or modifying the post only re-enforces the point being made. There is nothing "pointless" when years of history back me up. Look around, where are all the old timers? What do YOU think drove them away? Did they get busy with life and kids, or... was it something else?

Click to expand...

Indeed, you seem filled with negativity.

We, the ol' timers are still here and introducing a raft of newbies. Our numbers are growing, not diminishing.

We have Sat. morning breakfasts, monthly dinners, lobby at the GA. We train, we teach and we learn.

Not for Ian's reasons, but I know this 10-year member comes by less. I post less, I organize dinners and picnics less, I go out of my way to events less ....

Mostly because the character of the board has changed. It has been a subtle change, but has included inside jokes, a vehement opposition to those who do not toe the Party line (oppose Cuccinelli, Reeves, Lingamfelter, Trump, Jackson, etc -- begone!), and a less-welcoming feel. As our nation has become divided over so many issues -- economics, race, politics, religion, and intelligence -- so has our board.

I wish I had a solution to offer. I don't, so I drift.

IanB said:

Thank you for the trip down memory lane, Citizen. You and I (as well as Grape and others) are part of the original "First 1000" club on the old OCDO site. Those WERE the days, when free wheeling speech was respected on OCDO, you could call a bad cop a bad cop, an OCDO member short of brain cells stupid, and find a place to join in OC camaraderie for dinner. Then, things changed. A whiny cop from POLICEONE (a site restricted to LEO's ONLY, which is closed to viewing by the general public so they can lambaste and talk smack all day long about whoever they want - including OCDO) came on OCDO, a place that was open and allowed free speech, to complain about how rude (and anti-cop) we were to be disparaging his anti-OC views. Instead of supporting its membership, this site bowed down to the cops and instituted restrictions on free speech and tightened up discussions to the point that moderators were deleting ANYTHING that could not be tied DIRECTLY to open carry. Moderation became heavy handed and pushed a lot of good people away. This was all in the spirit of appearing to be happy hand holding friends with the very LEO's who would refuse our OC rights if given a chance to remove them.

That, as older members like Citizen and myself know... was the beginning of the end of the tight knit community that had started, mainly in response to the Manassas incident known as Toney's-7. New rules were implemented that limited our ability to speak our minds. The old timers quit coming to OCDO, OC dinners occurred less frequently, the annual picnic in NoVA fell by the wayside, basically the spirited activists who were the glue of OCDO lost interest. This place is a joke now. It has gone from MOLAN LABE!! to MEHWHATEVER.

I'd imagine THIS post, due to speaking the truth and having some negativity about OCDO, and cops (and not directly about OC'ing) will be edited or removed shortly. My point has been proven if that occurs.

Click to expand...

I don't know you, nor am I part of the First 1000 club, so what I'm about to say is with all due respect. I started coming to this site long after all of the controversy you describe happened, so I was not aware of that history. However, there is still a lot of anti-cop and cop-bashing on here from certain members. As a sworn law enforcement officer, I find their attitudes against LEO's childish and small, but I refrain from responding because I feel it will do no good. I'm not gonna change their minds on this website. Besides, wrestling with a pig just gets both of you dirty and the pig likes it. I will say this: if how you describe the "good old days" was really like that (and I'm not calling your description into question), then I probably would have moved on and left you "MOLON LABE" guys to your selves. I am a member here because I still enjoy reading and writing with folks who care about one thing: OCing. Not all cops care about taking away the OC rights of the citizens. I love talking to people about everything guns, both at work and at home. I could care less if somebody is OCing, as long as they are on the up and up. I also appreciate everything Grape et al do to keep this site running. To call it a joke is disrespectful and out of order. In closing, if OCDO isn't meeting your needs, maybe you should just move on and find someplace else where other kindred souls will enjoy your negativity.

Good evening Scooter. The "first 1000" club isn't a club at all, and there is no membership. It's merely a reference to the old timers who were around before the membership on this site took off. We don't claim "exclusivity", or look down on anyone who joined later than us...it's just a saying. This board supports all 50 states, so the Virginia element of the old timers was not even 1000, it was more like 100 hardcore dedicated 2A enthusiasts from Virginia. (the early OCDO membership was mostly from states where OC was legal, and the OCDO founders are from VA, so Virginia had the strongest and largest contingent) I'm sorry to hear that you feel there is still "anti cop" sentiment on this board. I hope you don't find strong opinions regarding specific violations of rights (by police) as a broad based "anti-cop" mentality. I'd like to re-quote what I originally wrote:

"you could call a bad cop a bad cop, an OCDO member short of brain cells stupid, and find a place to join in OC camaraderie for dinner"

I want to point out that I wrote "bad" cop. I in NO way shape or form am broadly stating ALL cops are bad. If you feel that when an officer, acting under authority and color of law, violates a citizens rights or coerces others to violate your rights for them (ala Toney's 7) then YES, I will call a bad cop a bad cop. If you feel that someone like myself, calling out specific instances of foul, unconstitutional behavior is "anti cop" than I'm guilty as charged. But...that IS not broad based anti-cop sentiment, it's pointing out specific cases where someone (LEO) acted inappropriately. You sound like a smart, reasonable person so I think (or I at least hope) you agree that not all your coworkers are good and some willfully lie and violate freedoms and rights - even though they have been trained on constitutional rights and know they are doing something wrong. If you disagree that some of your coworkers lie or violate rights I can help by providing specific terms that will produce glaring search results right from Culpeper.

I also wrote that we have members who used to frequent this site who are short some brain cells. They would write all sorts of ridiculous junk and we would call them out for their idiocy. If you need an example of this simply do a search for "HankT" on this site. I would call him a troll but he was more than that. A troll drops a bomb and watches the fireworks that ensue. HankT would at least stick around and continue participating in the discussions he started.

So, you and Grape may think I'm being negative, you are entitled to your opinions. You are right that my two recent posts have a negative tone, I won't argue that one bit. I'm not normally a negative person on this board but this discussion brought back many memories and caused me to reflect on where this forum has gone in 10 years. We used to be able to be outraged when our rights were violated, nowadays we keep quiet because if we say something about police treatment on this forum it's viewed as "anti-cop" and deleted.

If Toney's 7 or the issues user "Danbus" experienced occurred today the resulting OCDO conversation would not be the same. Now we are relegated to making jokes about keeping our index fingers holstered so we don't get charged with brandishing.

IanB said:

I've already made my point with my words. Deleting or modifying the post only re-enforces the point being made. There is nothing "pointless" when years of history back me up. Look around, where are all the old timers? What do YOU think drove them away? Did they get busy with life and kids, or... was it something else?

Click to expand...

sorry, you have been on a whine for awhile...let's look at reality...

when you and the good olde guys and gals were starting out, this fourm style venue was most reliable as the infrastructure was the olde bbs concept...FB was just gearing up and launching and not as technically viable or stable as a media communication platform nor did folk have the necessary equipment w/appropriate apps to run FB.

today... the forum platform is the dinosaur and FB app is technologically superior ~ to some...

you might as well whine with a question, Where have all the flowers gone, long time passing? peter, Paul and Mary ~ but the answer is to FB.

bottom line, your whine about free flowing member insulting other members, cop bashing and the forum itself maturing as it became nationally visable is pointing the finger incorrectly and instead might be aimed at yourself for not hopping on the train of change and you should quit wishing for the good olde days of the way it was...

your insulting everything you and other individuals strived for and succeeded in accomplishing in the Commonwealth...unfortunately, the state forum has grown to a national level enterprise be bloody proud of your part to get it there for goodness sake and provide constructive commentary on how to make it better not how it was in the olde state level days.

Tess said:

Not for Ian's reasons, but I know this 10-year member comes by less. I post less, I organize dinners and picnics less, I go out of my way to events less ....


I wish I had a solution to offer. I don't, so I drift.

Click to expand...

Seems like this place was a better place a while back. Even though I am rather new here it sure sounds like there should be a major change. Let me offer a solution.

I call for REVOLT. Throw the rascals out.

Get it to what we want!

REVOLUTION!!!!!

Nemo

IanB said:

SNIP Good evening Scooter. The "first 1000" club isn't a club at all, and there is no membership. It's merely a reference to the old timers who were around before the membership on this site took off. We don't claim "exclusivity", or look down on anyone who joined later than us...it's just a saying

Click to expand...

Aaaaahhh. Those were the days.

OK, Naked. The time has come for a little embarrassment. I hope you're up to it. Don't go all shy and humble. You deserve this, you snack thief (inside joke).

Readers, IanB is almost single-handedly responsible for driving the Million Mommies of Northern VA underground. Here's how he did it.

Once upon a time (2009?), the Million Mommies promoted a meeting they were gonna have in Northern VA. As it turned out, they were gonna have a meeting--to increase their membership--at a public library.

Ian realized a public venue meant open season on recording the meeting (translation: videography).

Oh, boy! Did it get interesting fast. I was there!

Their main speaker was a slime-ball lawyer who would sell your right to self-defense for a fast buck for himself in a heart-beat. He refused to speak once Ian set up his recording equipment!! His lame-oh excuse was something along the lines of not being able to control the copyright of the video. (I am open to correction on this point.)

Ian had a field day!! Oh, they still had the meeting. The prune-faced, oh-so-victimized president still made her pitch, but, boy was it hilarious!!

And, username Tess was there, too. (Sorry, Tess, I gotta say it.) You see, something happened to Tess years ago that makes her an unassailable, bullet-proof advocate for self-defense rights. Tess was there that evening at that library. Tess briefly told her story to the meeting. And, one of those Million Mommy idiots invalidated Tess by "suggesting" an alternative. As God is my witness, Tess slayed their argument with a single question. And, Ian got it in tape!!

Well, the Million Mommies decided they couldn't have OCers (or their videographers) recording their distortions, so they started hunting for venues where they could control access by "evil gun-toters."

The last I recall, they were having meetings in a church or religious academy that allowed them to forbid guns.

But!! They dang sure gave up holding meetings to increase membership in public venues. All because IanB was there with his recording equipment!!

Oh, yes. Those were the days!

Citizen said:

--snipped--
Oh, yes. Those were the days!

Click to expand...

Not all Days of Wine and Roses though. Lots of blood, sweat, and tears along the way. Still, I would do it all over again in a heartbeat.

Remember that today is yesterday's future. There is much to be done, more history to be created.

And no one is interested in helping with the revolt?

Sheesh and Criminatley!

Nemo

Thundar said:

... Lately The activist movement seems to have taken a nap. Been replaced with stupid political shows. ...

Click to expand...

In order to reinvigorate the activism you say is missing, you Virginians could put together an open carry walk on Virginia Tech's campus (for a start).

http://m.collegiatetimes.com/news/s...9f2-81e8-11e6-8f37-3794f659351c.html?mode=jqm

"Ryan Martin says he will stop eating come midnight on Sunday, Sept. 25.

The senior, studying English and biology, plans to conduct a hunger strike that will last until the end of President Timothy Sands' State of the University address — slated to begin at 3 p.m. on Friday, Sept. 30.

The only thing that would end the strike early, Martin says, is if Sands agrees to a conversation about carrying concealed firearms on campus with a permit.

Virginia Tech is a gun-free zone, a policy Martin believes makes the university less safe.

“The goal really is to have a conversation with President Sands," Martin said. "He’s paid almost a million dollars a year and I contacted him initially in January and it's been nine months and I still have yet to get that meeting."

The Washington Business Journal reports that Sands had a salary of $517,500 in 2015.

Martin, who owns six firearms, is a driver for both Blacksburg Transit and Uber. He also volunteers with Blacksburg Volunteer Rescue Squad. ..."

Citizen said:

Aaaaahhh. Those were the days.

OK, Naked. The time has come for a little embarrassment. I hope you're up to it. Don't go all shy and humble. You deserve this, you snack thief (inside joke).

Readers, IanB is almost single-handedly responsible for driving the Million Mommies of Northern VA underground. Here's how he did it.

Once upon a time (2009?), the Million Mommies promoted a meeting they were gonna have in Northern VA. As it turned out, they were gonna have a meeting--to increase their membership--at a public library.

Ian realized a public venue meant open season on recording the meeting (translation: videography).

Oh, boy! Did it get interesting fast. I was there!

Their main speaker was a slime-ball lawyer who would sell your right to self-defense for a fast buck for himself in a heart-beat. He refused to speak once Ian set up his recording equipment!! His lame-oh excuse was something along the lines of not being able to control the copyright of the video. (I am open to correction on this point.)

Ian had a field day!! Oh, they still had the meeting. The prune-faced, oh-so-victimized president still made her pitch, but, boy was it hilarious!!

And, username Tess was there, too. (Sorry, Tess, I gotta say it.) You see, something happened to Tess years ago that makes her an unassailable, bullet-proof advocate for self-defense rights. Tess was there that evening at that library. Tess briefly told her story to the meeting. And, one of those Million Mommy idiots invalidated Tess by "suggesting" an alternative. As God is my witness, Tess slayed their argument with a single question. And, Ian got it in tape!!

Well, the Million Mommies decided they couldn't have OCers (or their videographers) recording their distortions, so they started hunting for venues where they could control access by "evil gun-toters."

The last I recall, they were having meetings in a church or religious academy that allowed them to forbid guns.

But!! They dang sure gave up holding meetings to increase membership in public venues. All because IanB was there with his recording equipment!!

Oh, yes. Those were the days!

Click to expand...

Oh, yeah. THAT was fun. Blood, sweat, and tears, I think grapeshot said. That one was not. Perhaps passive-aggressive (my specialty, BTW), but following the letter of the law. The meeting was billed as an educational meeting of those opposed to gun violence, and all of the open carriers who attended believe in education and are opposed to gun violence -- probably to all other forms of violence as well. I think they took their meetings to a private home, where they could invite only like-minded individuals. No more advertising in the paper about "educational" meetings. That bit them big time.

solus, I don't understand where you're going with the facebook v. forum argument. Different methods of communication, but common goals. I must've missed something.

I really saw the change in this forum during the year leading up to the last gubernatorial election in Virginia. Didn't matter how strong we were on 2A or OC; if we disagreed on anything else we were castigated. I lost respect for the forum as a whole, even though I know there are those who do respect differing viewpoints, and moved on to lurk occasionally vice checking in multiple times a day. It is what it is.

Tess said:

I really saw the change in this forum during the year leading up to the last gubernatorial election in Virginia. Didn't matter how strong we were on 2A or OC; if we disagreed on anything else we were castigated. I lost respect for the forum as a whole, even though I know there are those who do respect differing viewpoints, and moved on to lurk occasionally vice checking in multiple times a day. It is what it is.

Click to expand...

Yes Tess I agree. That was a very decisive and sad time for OCDO. Critique or questioning of VCDL PAC endorsements was heavily moderated and one sided. I expect the same soon, when we try to have intelligent discussions about the very predictable VCDL PAC endorsement.

Not towing the odd republican candidate line, no matter how objectionable towards liberty some of his stated policy positions are, will be attacked. Not supporting Donald Duck is not anti gun, but there will be attacks saying just that.

Live Free or Die,
Thundar

Nightmare said:

"Toe the line" is often misspelled "tow the line", substituting a familiar verb "tow" for the homophonic but unfamiliar verbal use of "toe." "Tow" does not accord with any of the etymologies of the phrase, so "tow the line" is a linguistic eggcorn."

Click to expand...

I'm glad to see that there is at least one other intelligent life-form on these forums.

(oh, and I prefer draggin' the line)

BB62 said:

I'm glad to see that there is at least one other intelligent life-form on these forums.

(oh, and I prefer draggin' the line)

Click to expand...

I can assure you I did type toeing, but the damn auto correction changed it to towing.

Thundar said:

I can assure you I did type toeing, but the damn auto correction changed it to towing.

Click to expand...

I hear you! Autocorrect, the scourge and reward of smart devices!

It appears the journey from the old system to the new OCDO site lost the orig post from our fun day at the library.

Here's the videos though, and Tess and my meeting reports from the first meeting that was not videotaped.

Tess report: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?37068-My-notes-from-the-MMM

My report: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?37082-MMM-meeting-report

Video #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAsyrBTvN2g
Video #2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc8uXTfpdHM
Video #3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CnDvnPFzL0

IanB said:

It appears the journey from the old system to the new OCDO site lost the orig post from our fun day at the library.

Here's the videos though, and Tess and my meeting reports from the first meeting that was not videotaped.

Tess report: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?37068-My-notes-from-the-MMM

My report: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?37082-MMM-meeting-report

Video #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAsyrBTvN2g
Video #2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc8uXTfpdHM
Video #3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CnDvnPFzL0

Click to expand...

Oh! Then I am mis-remembering. I thought you taped the meeting at the library in (Burke?).

Tess said:

SNIP Perhaps passive-aggressive (my specialty, BTW), but following the letter of the law.

Click to expand...

Oh, yes. I remember the time you passive-aggressively skewered the Manassas PD report on the Tony's incident to city council.

As I recall, the city council had a carefully thought-out response: they didn't say a thing when you were done.