• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Challenge to the "lesser of two evils" crowd

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
Actually, I whole-heartedly, and still do, support the war effort in Afghanistan, and I supported the invasion, take-over, and war in Iraq as well. As I have also supported Military action in Libya, Egypt, and Syria in any and all forms. So no, little MIB, I was -not- opposed, or against any of the U.S. Lead, or backed military actions Since Dubya became President.

Oh, so you blindly cleave to imperialist tendencies and are easily manipulated by manufactured propaganda. Thanks for clearing that up.

I do however, have and still oppose the USAPATRIOT act, and similiar policies and/or legislation.

And what has your beloved Obama done about that, other than extending and expanding?

In all actuality, I only oppose few of Fmr President Bush's policies, and legislation, as opposed to my hostility to a majority of current President Obama's policies and indescreations.

Tell me again what makes Obama preferable to Romney (I believe them to be equally bad and will vote accordingly).

Tell me, on how exactly openly supporting the LGBT community, helps us in any way, when the slight majority of our House, and senate at-large, still oppose same-sex, and trans-gender equality.

The "LGBT community" is perpetually whining about how it must not only be allowed to exist, but needs to be celebrated and promoted by society. Your president just did that. You should be thrilled, and we should stop having to hear about "LGBT issues."

Regarding "trans-gender equality," what law, precisely, forbids you to put on your high heels, a dress, and prance around downtown, like a fool, to your heart's content? Again, you don't want the mere right to practice your chosen lifestyle; you want acceptance and celebration. Sorry, but you have to earn that, and you just aren't going to get it from most Americans outside of SF, Miami, and the New York/Boston liberal hell.

Obama's lack of evolution within his career, his near-constant flip-flopping of issues, and choices, deciding, and undeciding, is not that uncommmon for the Office of President.

Agreed, as of recent years. However, it is by no means a desirable trait and when there are candidates running who are not flip-floppers, it seems odd you would cast a vote for Obama.

As, if anyone of a sane, level-head can tell, every single president we've had, since our nations' founding, has displayed the same exact 'features'. Even the, so-called "great republican", Lincoln, flip-flopped on the issue of emancipation, at first favoring deportation of Black-americans, then to "separate, but equal" in his later months in office.

Lincoln was a tyrannical piece of s***, who did more than any other man (until FDR and possibly Obama) to centralize power within the federal government and destroy the republican government our Founders left to us.

Lincoln in no way embodies the traits of presidents previous to him.

Oh, and for the record... I am -not- 'liberal'; I'm a "dixiecrat", a Southern-Democrat, I hold ultra-conservative views on economy, Liberal on Social issues, and neutral on foreign policy.

You clearly have no idea what "Dixiecrat" means. Try reading a book sometime.

Furthermore, I would ask you to please keep your personal attacks on my character, and latent down-grading, to yourself. Just because you can put someone down, insult them, and their political decisions/opinions/points-of-view on issues their most vocal on, doesn't mean you should; As this is online, and a private board, such "free speech" is not guaranteed, you want to enjoy such freedoms, do so offline, in a peaceably assembled group of like-minded individuals, etc.

While I doubt you have much of a character to attack, it is your ideas that I am attempting to destroy. If you don't want to get taken to task for your ridiculous statements, don't post them online. Alternatively, educate yourself before posting further and you won't get torn apart as much.
 
Last edited:

Freedom First

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
845
Location
Kennewick, Wa.
You're going to vote for your party's nominee no matter what. We're all very much aware of that.

So, if you're in the Republican camp, why not vote for Ron Paul in your state primary or caucus, if it's still coming up? What's the possible down-side? This isn't the Presidential vote in November, it's the party nomination. You're already convinced that Romney is the inevitable nominee and all you care about is voting against Obama. So why not vote for Ron Paul for the nomination? What could you possibly have to lose?

"All voting is a sort of gaming, like checkers or backgammon, with a slight moral tinge to it, a playing with right and wrong, with moral questions; and betting naturally accompanies it. The character of the voters is not staked. I cast my vote, perchance, as I think right; but I am not vitally concerned that that right should prevail. I am willing to leave it to the majority. Its obligation, therefore, never exceeds that of expediency. Even voting for the right is doing nothing for it. It is only expressing to men feebly your desire that it should prevail. A wise man will not leave the right to the mercy of chance, nor wish it to prevail through the power of the majority. There is but little virtue in the action of masses of men. When the majority shall at length vote for the abolition of slavery, it will be because they are indifferent to slavery, or because there is but little slavery left to be abolished by their vote. They will then be the only slaves. Only his vote can hasten the abolition of slavery who asserts his own freedom by his vote."

"I hear of a convention to be held at Baltimore, or elsewhere, for the selection of a candidate for the Presidency, made up chiefly of editors, and men who are politicians by profession; but I think, what is it to any independent, intelligent, and respectable man what decision they may come to? Shall we not have the advantage of his wisdom and honesty, nevertheless? Can we not count upon some independent votes? Are there not many individuals in the country who do not attend conventions? But no: I find that the respectable man, so called, has immediately drifted from his position, and despairs of his country, when his country has more reason to despair of him. He forthwith adopts one of the candidates thus selected as the only available one, thus proving that he is himself available for any purposes of the demagogue. His vote is of no more worth than that of any unprincipled foreigner or hireling native, who may have been bought. Oh for a man who is a man, and, as my neighbor says, has a bone in his back which you cannot pass your hand through! Our statistics are at fault: the population has been returned too large. How many men are there to a square thousand miles in this country? Hardly one."
HD Thoreau


I will never again vote for the lesser of two evils. I'm not for sale.

I will always vote my mind from here on. Is a vote for Ron Paul a vote for Obama? Sure it is. Will Romney winning make us a freer nation? No. So find me the difference.

Obama wins: They destroy what remains of this nation.

Romney wins: They do it slower.

Paul wins: They will kill him if he actually tries to do what he has promised.


End result? More Freedom or more tyrannical governance? Sorry guys, the light at the end of the tunnel is a train. And it's full of chains and tyranny. For you and me and our kids.
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
I would MUCH rather Obama win this election and start fixing things next that continue this game that our leaders have us play.
Because his track record with fixing things is great? {sarcasm}


If Obama is reelected, look for this country to take an even steeper slide to destruction. Why, you ask? He has already signed into law the NDAA, which effectively removes our 4th and 5th amendment rights.

On December 25th 2011, while we were all in our Christmas Day slumber, he signed an executive order allowing $614.4 BILLION, thats $614,400,000,000 tax payer dollars, to Eurpopean banks to bail out the Euro. And the money is still flowing.

He has already stated, publicly, that the Constitution is out dated, and is no longer relevant in todays society.

The fact that he has not actually helped this economy is hilarious.

The only thing stopping him from doing more damage right now, is his reelection. I think he is going to wait until he has four more years to do the real damage. Then he has nothing to lose.

And if you think this current "justice system" will actually do anything to keep the president under control, then Id like to know what hole you have been hiding in.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
After reading comment about the subject on Lewrockwell.com on the lack of "Romney" campaign signs, I started looking. I haven't seen one bumper sticker one sign for him in my county. And the lack of Obama signs and stickers interest me too, compared to the last election.

I do see a lot of Ron Paul signs and bumper stickers. Too bad people will just vote for who they believe to be the likely winner of the two evils.

Same thing in my area south of you.

I've even seen pro-Ron Paul signs in Kirkland.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
If Obama is reelected, look for this country to take an even steeper slide to destruction. Why, you ask? He has already signed into law the NDAA, which effectively removes our 4th and 5th amendment rights.

Any law that is contrary to the constitution is to be ignored as though it never existed.

He has already stated, publicly, that the Constitution is out dated, and is no longer relevant in today's society.

Sounds like some soldiers need to re-read their oath.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Are you thinking the same thing I am thinking, Pinky?

The fact that he has not actually helped this economy is hilarious.

The only thing stopping him from doing more damage right now, is his reelection. I think he is going to wait until he has four more years to do the real damage. Then he has nothing to lose.

It's scary because you are correct.
 

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
Because his track record with fixing things is great? {sarcasm}

If Obama is reelected, look for this country to take an even steeper slide to destruction. Why, you ask? He has already signed into law the NDAA, which effectively removes our 4th and 5th amendment rights.

With a large portion of a Republican congress holding his hand.

On December 25th 2011, while we were all in our Christmas Day slumber, he signed an executive order allowing $614.4 BILLION, thats $614,400,000,000 tax payer dollars, to Eurpopean banks to bail out the Euro. And the money is still flowing.

So. We've been hemorrhaging regardless of who's in the White House. Romney won't change this.

He has already stated, publicly, that the Constitution is out dated, and is no longer relevant in todays society.

The fact that he has not actually helped this economy is hilarious.

The only thing stopping him from doing more damage right now, is his reelection. I think he is going to wait until he has four more years to do the real damage. Then he has nothing to lose.

Yeah you're right... It's the Repub's turn to do damage now. Fair is fair.

And if you think this current "justice system" will actually do anything to keep the president under control, then Id like to know what hole you have been hiding in.

Probably the same one you're typing from.
 
Last edited:

CharleyCherokee

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
293
Location
WesternKy
Because his track record with fixing things is great? {sarcasm}


If Obama is reelected, look for this country to take an even steeper slide to destruction.


That is precisely the point he was making. The country is so deep in denial it will take a complete collapse to wake most of these jack asses up. Even I am beginning to feel that way. I'm afraid we as American's have our heads so far up our collective asses that it's going to take a harsh harsh kick to get us to pull it out of there.
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
Because his track record with fixing things is great? {sarcasm}


If Obama is reelected, look for this country to take an even steeper slide to destruction.


That is precisely the point he was making. The country is so deep in denial it will take a complete collapse to wake most of these jack asses up. Even I am beginning to feel that way. I'm afraid we as American's have our heads so far up our collective asses that it's going to take a harsh harsh kick to get us to pull it out of there.

Thanks. I think that if we make a showing to do what is right over what we are told is right then we can fix this mess we are in. All I ever hear is "I support Paul but I won't vote for him because a vote for him is a vote for Obama." or something similar. It seems so few are willing to do what is best for them and our country because they think that if they do then they will get the worst over the worse. This is not the way the system was designed, only how we are persuaded to play. And even "knowledgeable" members of this forum are playing into that. I would lose my freedoms (elect Obama) to protect those of generations after (allow them the ability to elect ANYONE) if that is the cost.

I too would much rather Obama not win the next election (or any election after) so I refuse to vote for "Obama-lite".
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
I would lose my freedoms (elect Obama) to protect those of generations after (allow them the ability to elect ANYONE) if that is the cost.

Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither and lose both. The only thing protecting the next generation will be our fight for continued freedom.

From time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

What is better giving up or standing up?

+1000
 
Last edited:

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
From time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

What is better giving up or standing up?

That's nice. Nice things to say... However, I didn't say ANYTHING about giving up.

My response was to your statement "Any law that is contrary to the constitution is to be ignored as though it never existed."

Since OCDO does not allow topics regarding revolution, I'll have to assume that you mean to take a "legal" stand. If you "ignore" any law you think is contrary to the Constitution then you'd better be ready for the fight. Are you suggesting that you should not be ready and just sacrifice yourself a martyr? Well, go right on ahead.
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
Any law that is contrary to the constitution is to be ignored as though it never existed.

I completely agree with you, however, our current .gov believes they can do what they want, if its in the interest of the .gov. Whatever works for them.

Our Constitution gives us the right to forcibly take back our government. I think its time that ball got rolling.
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
Since OCDO does not allow topics regarding revolution

Im curious as to what OCDO will do when/if that actually happens. Will they back up the people fighting, or continue to tell its members to stay peaceful and not fight back with force.

Either way, if it does happen, I doubt we will be able to discuss it on the internet anyway. It will be one of the first things to go.
 

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
Hold on there sparky....!

I completely agree with you, however, our current .gov believes they can do what they want, if its in the interest of the .gov. Whatever works for them.

Our Constitution gives us the right to forcibly take back our government. I think its time that ball got rolling.

War is very seldom the best answer to any problem. Before we even speak of such drastic measures we "the people" need to ask ourselves, have we made every good faith effort to avoid it? That's how the founders did it, we should follow their lead. Also, sadly we live in a fat, dumb, self absorbed society... do you really think you could muster 1/3 of the population (100 Million) to stand with you as the founders did? Treason to the crown was punishable by death....still is.... Words to ponder upon, I would suggest to you and yours.


Kind regards,

G9OS
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
War is very seldom the best answer to any problem. Before we even speak of such drastic measures we "the people" need to ask ourselves, have we made every good faith effort to avoid it? That's how the founders did it, we should follow their lead. Also, sadly we live in a fat, dumb, self absorbed society... do you really think you could muster 1/3 of the population (100 Million) to stand with you as the founders did? Treason to the crown was punishable by death....still is.... Words to ponder upon, I would suggest to you and yours.


Kind regards,

G9OS

Just a thought...the tax burdens that drove the colonists into high dudgeon were fractions of what they are today. The Founding Fathers would be disgusted to find that modern Americans pay for government permits to wear coats over their pistols and swords. It could be argued that the revolutionaries did not put up with nearly as much as we do today before resorting to political violence.

Colonial Tax Burdens
Area Per Capita
Tax Burden
1765
Great Britain$5.76
Ireland$1.47
Massachusetts$0.22
Pennsylvania$0.22
Maryland$0.22
New York$0.15
Connecticut$0.13
Virginia$0.10
Source: R.R. Palmer,
The Age of Democratic Revolution
Princeton University Press, 1969, p. 155. The important matter is the relative size of the tax burdens. The magnitudes are hard to interpret because of the difference in the price level in 1765 compared to now. Incomes in the colonies, estimated at between $60 and $100 per capita per year, were some of the highest in the world at that time. In contrast incomes in Ireland were only about half as large as incomes in the colonies.
 

Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
I completely agree with you, however, our current .gov believes they can do what they want, if its in the interest of the .gov. Whatever works for them.

Our Constitution gives us the right to forcibly take back our government. I think its time that ball got rolling.

NO. Simply existing gives us the right to forcibly take back our government, the constitution is simply in compliance with that.
 

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
Im curious as to what OCDO will do when/if that actually happens. Will they back up the people fighting, or continue to tell its members to stay peaceful and not fight back with force.

Either way, if it does happen, I doubt we will be able to discuss it on the internet anyway. It will be one of the first things to go.

Yes it will.

Speaking of revolution over the internet is beyond dumb. In addition, it's my intention to work within the system and I understand that such is the objective of OCDO as well.
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither and lose both. The only thing protecting the next generation will be our fight for continued freedom.

I am saying it is best to fight (place your votes where they belong) this election to start fixing things to allow elections after to be voted the right way.

Edit: What we have right now hardly constitutes "liberty".
 
Last edited:
Top