Utah Changes Requirements

JoeSparky said:

Me thinks this thread has gone just a LONG WAY OFF TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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How so?

This thread started with the OP informing Wisconsin residents that the recent changes in Wisconsin and Utah laws will change the process one must go through to obtain the popular Utah permit. We've discussed why the law changed and how this will affect the time/cost/effort one must expend to obtain the permit. We've discussed alternative nonresident permits that Wisconsin residents might consider, and the cost/effort/time/benefits of doing so. This all seems on topic to me.

I will admit that much of my comments mention more than how this will affect Wisconsin residents but I have also tried to make sure I made it clear on how this affects Wisconsin residents specifically. Sure, some of that is not quite on the topic of Wisconsin residents getting Utah permits but it is far from being a "long way off topic". If people are inconvenienced or discouraged from getting Utah permits because of the changes in law it would seem logical to have some discussion on alternatives.

mrjam2jab said:

I've been "pushing" the AZ permit for about a year now. Unless FL doesn't honor one's home state permit, the only difference in reciprocity is WA. AZ is about half the cost of FL initially and 1/3 the cost for renewals, your home state permit PROBABLY will suffice for the training req, FL requires fingerprints be done by LEO, with AZ anybody can do them. Oh, and turn around time mailbox to mailbox is about 2 weeks with AZ.

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Good to know. I assume you speak from first hand experience, correct?

IIRC, a resident permit to carry weapons will satisfy the training requirement for Arizona. I'm quite certain that a hunter safety class will work. I KNOW that documentation of military service will do since I was considering applying for an Arizona permit at one time and that stuck in my head as I have those forms already. Most everyone here likely has something already that will satisfy the Arizona training requirement. The Arizona permit is recognized in 30+ states. The only downside that I can see of the Arizona permit compared to the Utah one is it does not solve the "Red River problem".

Minnesota is very picky about what permits it will recognize. I hope they do some reform on that soon, not only for my sake but for all those that wish to visit the state.

IA_farmboy said:

Good to know. I assume you speak from first hand experience, correct?

IIRC, a resident permit to carry weapons will satisfy the training requirement for Arizona. I'm quite certain that a hunter safety class will work. I KNOW that documentation of military service will do since I was considering applying for an Arizona permit at one time and that stuck in my head as I have those forms already. Most everyone here likely has something already that will satisfy the Arizona training requirement. The Arizona permit is recognized in 30+ states. The only downside that I can see of the Arizona permit compared to the Utah one is it does not solve the "Red River problem".

Minnesota is very picky about what permits it will recognize. I hope they do some reform on that soon, not only for my sake but for all those that wish to visit the state.

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Yes I do. I got the AZ permit in Oct 2010...just a few months after the Con Carry bill passed...opening up a larger list of acceptable training. Previously, training had to be done "in state".

Now they will accept:

N. An applicant shall demonstrate competence with a firearm through any of the following:

1. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class that is available to the general public, that is offered by a law enforcement agency, a junior college, a college or a private or public institution, academy, organization or firearms training school and that is approved by the department of public safety or that uses instructors who are certified by the national rifle association.

2. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Arizona game and fish department or a similar agency of another state.

3. Completion of any national rifle association firearms safety or training course.

4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class that is offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies or other divisions or subdivisions of law enforcement or security enforcement and that is approved by the department of public safety.

5. Evidence of current military service or proof of honorable discharge or general discharge under honorable conditions from the United States armed forces.

6. A valid current or expired concealed weapon, firearm or handgun permit or license that is issued by another state or a political subdivision of another state and that has a training or testing requirement for initial issuance.

7. Completion of any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualification to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties.

8. Completion of any other firearms safety or training course or class that is conducted by a department of public safety approved or national rifle association certified firearms instructor.

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My PA LTCF did not suffice as no training was needed to get it. Your IA PTC will suffice.

mrjam2jab said:

Yes I do. I got the AZ permit in Oct 2010...just a few months after the Con Carry bill passed...opening up a larger list of acceptable training. Previously, training had to be done "in state".

Now they will accept:



My PA LTCF did not suffice as no training was needed to get it. Your IA PTC will suffice.

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Good to know. I have enough documents to show I've met the state training requirements that I can avoid giving a copy of my Iowa PTC to Arizona. If what you are saying is correct then I can see why I had not tried to get the Arizona permit years ago, there was just no way to get the required training in Iowa back then. I'll have to keep the Arizona permit in mind, it seems to be just as widely accepted as the Florida or Utah permits, only cheaper. It's so much cheaper that getting a new Arizona permit is cheaper than renewing the Florida permit. Compared to the Utah permit the fees are much less of a savings but the training can be much cheaper as the options for training is much wider.

Here's an idea I've considered to solve the "Red River problem" (recognition in both Minnesota and North Dakota), get a Texas concealed carry permit. Texas does not offer training outside of the state but the NRA annual meeting will be in Houston in May 2013. I could get that taken care of when I go down there then. The Texas license is expensive so I'm not sure I'll follow through on that idea. I offer it as another option to Wisconsin residents.

well,,,

i havent really been paying attention to this river problem, but
handgunlawus clearly showes that the Utah permit Is honored in both minnisota And no. dakota!
why is nobody else seeing that?
utah has always been the best out of state permit to get for reciprocity!

Many thanks for pointing out that one can now get the AZ permit by mail.

IA_farmboy said:

Good to know. I have enough documents to show I've met the state training requirements that I can avoid giving a copy of my Iowa PTC to Arizona. If what you are saying is correct then I can see why I had not tried to get the Arizona permit years ago, there was just no way to get the required training in Iowa back then. I'll have to keep the Arizona permit in mind, it seems to be just as widely accepted as the Florida or Utah permits, only cheaper. It's so much cheaper that getting a new Arizona permit is cheaper than renewing the Florida permit. Compared to the Utah permit the fees are much less of a savings but the training can be much cheaper as the options for training is much wider.

Here's an idea I've considered to solve the "Red River problem" (recognition in both Minnesota and North Dakota), get a Texas concealed carry permit. Texas does not offer training outside of the state but the NRA annual meeting will be in Houston in May 2013. I could get that taken care of when I go down there then. The Texas license is expensive so I'm not sure I'll follow through on that idea. I offer it as another option to Wisconsin residents.

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In fact, renewal of UT + AZ combined is still cheaper than FL....which is why I have UT and AZ but not FL.

1245A Defender said:

i havent really been paying attention to this river problem, but
handgunlawus clearly showes that the Utah permit Is honored in both minnisota And no. dakota!
why is nobody else seeing that?
utah has always been the best out of state permit to get for reciprocity!

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This "Red River problem" only really exists for a small portion of the population and it's probably not called that everywhere, but that's what I saw someone else call it so I borrowed the term. Unless you live in the Red River valley, or happened across it like I did, it's not likely to stick out in your mind.

I don't believe that it is a secret that Minnesota, North Dakota, and many other states recognize the Utah permit. It's quite well known in fact. It's because of that there is an entire industry nationwide that feeds off of these quirks in law that made the Utah permit so widely recognized and easy to obtain. What is happening is that the laws in several states, Utah and others, that is threatening the ease in which the permit can be obtained and increasing the availability and ease of getting permits in other states that is threatening the status of the Utah permit as "best in the nation". I'm thinking that Arizona now has the distinction of "best in the nation" for permits to carry.

The problem for people in Wisconsin is that if they wish to carry in Minnesota there are very few permits that allow them to do so legally. If my quick look at usacarry.com is right there are only four shall issue, non-resident, permits that will allow one to carry in Minnesota. Of those only the Utah one can be obtained without leaving the state. It also appears that due to these quirks in the various state laws that it is unlikely the Wisconsin permit will be recognized in Minnesota.

One thing that bothers me about the people that screamed up and down that Wisconsin needed their permit to carry to have a training requirement is so that it would be recognized in more states is that even though they got their training requirement they still don't have, and are unlikely to get, recognition in the state that they share a large border line. They got their training requirement but very little to show for it. Anyway, that's a rant I'll continue at some other time and place.

mrjam2jab said:

In fact, renewal of UT + AZ combined is still cheaper than FL....which is why I have UT and AZ but not FL.

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Getting just one of those is cheaper still!!

It's because of the wide recognition of both those permits it's probably best to do the research into alternatives so that one does not spend money they don't have to. The Arizona permit was not available by mail when I went looking for permits to carry out of state so that option was not open to me. Now that it is available then I would be foolish to keep spending my money on keeping the Florida permit. With such wide recognition of the Iowa permit I wonder about the wisdom of getting ANY out of state permit. Something for Wisconsin residents to consider, resident permits are almost always more widely recognized than a non-resident permit. You might not even need another once you get your home state permit.

I'm thinking that until we can know what states will recognize the Wisconsin permit it may be best to take a wait and see approach to this. If one is in a hurry then it may be wise to get the Utah permit now so they they don't need to go through the delay of getting the Wisconsin permit first.

IA_farmboy said:

Getting just one of those is cheaper still!!

It's because of the wide recognition of both those permits it's probably best to do the research into alternatives so that one does not spend money they don't have to. The Arizona permit was not available by mail when I went looking for permits to carry out of state so that option was not open to me. Now that it is available then I would be foolish to keep spending my money on keeping the Florida permit. With such wide recognition of the Iowa permit I wonder about the wisdom of getting ANY out of state permit. Something for Wisconsin residents to consider, resident permits are almost always more widely recognized than a non-resident permit. You might not even need another once you get your home state permit.

I'm thinking that until we can know what states will recognize the Wisconsin permit it may be best to take a wait and see approach to this. If one is in a hurry then it may be wise to get the Utah permit now so they they don't need to go through the delay of getting the Wisconsin permit first.

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"Why I Never Give Unsolicited Advice" by Bob Bly

TQ, a friend of many years, does not understand a rule I live by, which is: never give unsolicited advice.
Here are 5 reasons why I do not give unsolicited advice — and why I am not crazy about getting it, either:

1 — If other people really wanted your advice, they would ask for it.
2 — .......

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When I last researched the AZ permit one had to take the training in AZ and apply in AZ. Thanks to the folks who posted on this thread, I learned something new and just today sent a message to AZ to get the non-resident permit packet. I may keep up my FL permit just because I often visit a friend in FL who lives within a GFSZ, but having an AZ permit gives me layered coverage with the other permits I hold. And, of course, I will keep up my UT permit because it is now my "home state" permit and gives me access to NH, MI, FL, and CO. Having AZ may allow me to let my NV permit lapse.

davegran said:

"Why I Never Give Unsolicited Advice" by Bob Bly

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Not sure what prompted this. Perhaps it was that I was not clear, the "foolish" and "wisdom" comments was about MY own choices. I did not intend to pass judgement on the wisdom of others, just comment on my own. If the advice is not wanted then that is fine, I'm mostly just thinking out loud here and one is not required to read what I type. If you think that I am mistaken in some way then let me know, it is quite likely I am wrong about something. I keep coming back since I find this thread very interesting because those of us in Iowa went through much the same things, and I can't help but comment. I keep looking for ways to save money and by not having to get multiple permits is one way to do that, I suspect others are thinking the same.

I offer more of my thinking out loud, potentially money saving, research if anyone cares to read it. I found that Texas offers discounts to certain people applying for their concealed handgun permit. For example, veterans can get the permit for half price and current military can get it for free. There is still the training that one must obtain in state. I'm considering doing that when I head down there for the NRA annual meeting. I'll have to compute the total cost and compare that to the cost of other permits, along with the states that offer recognition.

Any way, just another brain dump if any one cares.