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What would you do/ have done if you where in my shoes?

Firedawg314

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
227
Location
Florissant, Mo
Well, about a week ago/ two weeks ago... I went to visit my parents (in a city that doesn't allow OC). No, I wasn't OCing, but I was CC. As I waited on my parents pourch for them to open the door... a fully grown, adult male German Sheaperd spotted me as he was strooling down the street. He locked eyes on me... at that point I said "oh f**k" in my head. As he cross the street towards me, I said in my command voice, "leave... get out of here, etc". Each time the dog stopped, and proceeded on towards me. Once it was about 20 feet from me (and I'm still ringing the doorbell as a crazy man), it quickly dropped its ears and I thought...ok he's tamed. At that split second.... he raised his lip and showed his teeth and went into attacked mode! I reached for my firearm gave another command for it to leave. It pounced up towards me about 3 feet from my arm, I fired a shot into the ground. The dog gave me a second look and quickly ranned down the street! And then... my parents open the door...wow...strange huh?

Well, now, just the other day, the dog returned, trying to attack the kids next door, luckly they made it in, but the dog would not leave. They called my parents to warn them also... so my parents called the police (that showed up 30 minutes later), They did not do "anything" but called the anminal control... that had to tranqualized the dog and take it away because of its agressivness!

From what we all could tell... the dog was taken care of (good coat, etc), but no tags, etc. Sometimes I wonder... Should I have shot the dog? This dog was extremly agressive and it probably weighed about 130 lbs. I shot into the ground only to scare the dog away... but then I thought about it after the police was called... what if, my parents where out side and I wasn't there? My old man is 78 years old and he uses a walker. From the car to the front door is about a 50ft walk (and up 7 steps). The kids in the area are about 13 years old and younger... if one of them where to get mauled or died... I feel that I could have prevented that. Yeah, I probably would have to pay a fine for discharging a firearm and then having a dead dog on my parents poruch...

What would you guys have done if you where in my shoes during that time?
 

G30Mike

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
120
Location
St. Joseph MO
Funny this story comes up just a few days after i shot an IDPA match with a scenario of a dog attacking a child. If that were me that dog would have been dead for sure. Personally im not a big fan of animals number one, and to me a "domesticated" animal should know its place. Yeah, I wouldve given it a few slugs for its troubles.
 

NG19

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
113
Location
Warrensburg, Missouri
First question, if you fired into the ground, did you get a fine for discharge of a weapon? Surely the police heard the shot and came investigating. If not, did you think about getting the citation when the dog was charging? Now, if it were me and the dog had its ears back, teeth showing, and either barking or growling at me before charging. I would have not had a second thought in my head but protect myself, besides what was beyond the dog so as not to harm anyone. If I were to get the citation, I would have accepted it and possibly fought it in court.
 

mspgunner

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Ellisville, Missouri, USA
If you were in fear of your life you should dispatch the animal. If the shot you fired into the ground did not discourage the dog it couild be held that the shot made the dog attack you!
The Missouri wildlife code book, I don't have one handy,contains a chapter where discarge of firearm to protect yourself from an animal is acceptable.
"Warning shots are 100% wrong" If something goes wrong with a "warning shot" who is the agressor? YOU!

If you pull a firearm from it's holster in a dangerous situation, shoot to remove the danger, you are protecting yourself from immediate risk of losing your life.
"Warning shots" are for the movies, not real life!
 

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
A scary situation and one I'm glad you came out of alright. This has really got me thinking. I would not wish to kill anything, that I don't have to(may sound strange from a hunter, but I that's a different thread), but in this case I would have had to put the dog down. You said that you didn't fire a warning shot until the dog was three feet from you. What if that had not stopped the animal? Three feet can be covered almost instantaneously by a dog that size. You may have only had time for that one shot and you used it as a warning. Not judging, I was not there, and I am glad you were not hurt, just pointing out that in such a case you may have wasted your only opportunity for self defense. That was not the case this time and I am glad, both for you and the dog, but is it worth risking it if there is a next time?

The truly crazy thing is that had you shot the dog the police, probably would have been there in a flash, not 30 min. later, like when the dog chased the kids.

Anyway glad you came out OK.
 

LMTD

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
1,919
Location
, ,
Shooting into the ground would not have entered into my mind. I am not sure a firearm would have been employed at all actually. Since you describe it as in the loo, there was not a good potential backstop for a bullet.

The firearm is to stop threats of deadly force. A punch in the eye is not ample force to shoot someone. A dog bite while painful and potentially very dangerous I am not sure meets the criteria of deadly force without more mitigating factors.

1. I doubt I would have let a strange dog get within three feet of me.
2. When it lunged, I most likely would have punted its ass into the street, size 10 redwings make an awesome weapon.
3. I would have then began beating the ever loving crap out of it.
4. If by chance it got me into a position where I feared for my life, I would have shot it dead but understand, the muzzle of my weapon would be in contact or within a couple of inches before I pulled the trigger.

IMHO no dog is a competitive factor for s full grown healthy man, killing it with your bare hands is not a particularly hard task. In the case of your father or others whom might be in ill health or lack the strength to fight it off, the situation is different.
 

RPGamingGirl

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2011
Messages
62
Location
SW MO
I think i would have done what you did.

Technically, you were "wrong" to fire within city limits. But since it was determined later that the dog was enough of a threat to tranq, then your instincts were right. It would have been "more right" to shoot the dog and be done with it. But it's so hard to say in the moment; hindsight and all that. We all hope that, faced with a situation like this, the LEOs would be understanding and look at the circumstances rather than the letter of the law.

It comes down to knowing how things are generally looked at in town; how do neighbors treat each other and how involved does local law enforcement get. Where i live, the deputies are very "live and let live." If no one's hurt when they show up, they're very happy. They don't create trouble where there isn't any, so i would feel comfortable pushing some grey areas that i wouldn't in other, more unforgiving places.
 

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
Shooting into the ground would not have entered into my mind. I am not sure a firearm would have been employed at all actually. Since you describe it as in the loo, there was not a good potential backstop for a bullet.

The firearm is to stop threats of deadly force. A punch in the eye is not ample force to shoot someone. A dog bite while painful and potentially very dangerous I am not sure meets the criteria of deadly force without more mitigating factors.

1. I doubt I would have let a strange dog get within three feet of me.
2. When it lunged, I most likely would have punted its ass into the street, size 10 redwings make an awesome weapon.
3. I would have then began beating the ever loving crap out of it.
4. If by chance it got me into a position where I feared for my life, I would have shot it dead but understand, the muzzle of my weapon would be in contact or within a couple of inches before I pulled the trigger.

IMHO no dog is a competitive factor for s full grown healthy man, killing it with your bare hands is not a particularly hard task. In the case of your father or others whom might be in ill health or lack the strength to fight it off, the situation is different.

I don't disagree with much of what you say. However, 130lbs animal is not the easiest to punt. I've had several run ins with dogs; some ended with both parties leaving in different directions; however, some didn't take the hints and I came out on top. I guess what I'm saying is every circumstance is different and depending on what is taking place, demands a different approach.

In the OPs scenario, if my pistol came out of the holster, it would not have fired a warning shot.
 

mspgunner

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Ellisville, Missouri, USA
I don't disagree with much of what you say. However, 130lbs animal is not the easiest to punt. I've had several run ins with dogs; some ended with both parties leaving in different directions; however, some didn't take the hints and I came out on top. I guess what I'm saying is every circumstance is different and depending on what is taking place, demands a different approach.

In the OPs scenario, if my pistol came out of the holster, it would not have fired a warning shot.

If a full grown German Shephard goes for you throat, the next sound heard would be gurgle, gurgle, gurgle as you took your last gaps of air... too late!
 

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
If a full grown German Shephard goes for you throat, the next sound heard would be gurgle, gurgle, gurgle as you took your last gaps of air... too late!

Hence, more than likely, the dog in the OPs scenario wouldn't have had a second chance.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
NG19 said:
If it were me and the dog had its ears back, teeth showing, and either barking or growling at me before charging, I would have not had a second thought in my head but protect myself, besides what was beyond the dog so as not to harm anyone.
LMTD said:
Shooting into the ground would not have entered into my mind.
These.
The dog was a threat, it was showing aggression, kept coming at you, & was finally close enough to contact you in less time than you could move or shoot.
Warning shots are Hollywood.
Also, 4-footed animals are unlikely to understand them other than as a loud noise.
If you fear for your well-being or life, shoot the danger.

lmtd said:
4. If by chance it got me into a position where I feared for my life, I would have shot it dead but understand, the muzzle of my weapon would be in contact or within a couple of inches before I pulled the trigger.
If a large aggressive dog were to get that close to you, you'd be injured, probably severely.
In the situation as described, there's no way I'd shoot anything but the dog.
I like dogs, but one that's attacking me is just as bad as a 2-legged predator attacking me.
Only differences are size & weaponry.

A smaller dog, one that I thought I could dissuade by kicking, shooting would not be my first choice.
But one that's more than half my mass/weight?!?! :eek:

no dog is a competitive factor for s full grown healthy man, killing it with your bare hands is not a particularly hard task.
I'd like to see you fight off a dog as described by the OP.
Better yet, since "no dog" is a problem, take on a police dog. (With their permission.)
 

j4l

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,835
Location
fl
Well, about a week ago/ two weeks ago... I went to visit my parents (in a city that doesn't allow OC). No, I wasn't OCing, but I was CC. As I waited on my parents pourch for them to open the door... a fully grown, adult male German Sheaperd spotted me as he was strooling down the street. He locked eyes on me... at that point I said "oh f**k" in my head. As he cross the street towards me, I said in my command voice, "leave... get out of here, etc". Each time the dog stopped, and proceeded on towards me. Once it was about 20 feet from me (and I'm still ringing the doorbell as a crazy man), it quickly dropped its ears and I thought...ok he's tamed. At that split second.... he raised his lip and showed his teeth and went into attacked mode! I reached for my firearm gave another command for it to leave. It pounced up towards me about 3 feet from my arm, I fired a shot into the ground. The dog gave me a second look and quickly ranned down the street! And then... my parents open the door...wow...strange huh?

Well, now, just the other day, the dog returned, trying to attack the kids next door, luckly they made it in, but the dog would not leave. They called my parents to warn them also... so my parents called the police (that showed up 30 minutes later), They did not do "anything" but called the anminal control... that had to tranqualized the dog and take it away because of its agressivness!

From what we all could tell... the dog was taken care of (good coat, etc), but no tags, etc. Sometimes I wonder... Should I have shot the dog? This dog was extremly agressive and it probably weighed about 130 lbs. I shot into the ground only to scare the dog away... but then I thought about it after the police was called... what if, my parents where out side and I wasn't there? My old man is 78 years old and he uses a walker. From the car to the front door is about a 50ft walk (and up 7 steps). The kids in the area are about 13 years old and younger... if one of them where to get mauled or died... I feel that I could have prevented that. Yeah, I probably would have to pay a fine for discharging a firearm and then having a dead dog on my parents poruch...

What would you guys have done if you where in my shoes during that time?



Had it been my dog, you would have been recieving some return fire, without a doubt. It's a dog. Not hard to disarm, or out-smart. Throw something in another direction, it will usually run after it. No need for shots unless one's actually chomping down on someone,which -contrary to popular mythology- they will rarely do unless tormented or made to feel threatend.
This nonsense people hear in the news about dogs just mauling folks "for no apparent reason" is just that-nonsense.

I have a very playful pitbull. She's black, and runs very fast and jumps very high. Sometimes folks see it in passing and are terrified, and I have to explain to them that no, she's more likely to lick all the skin off your face, than anything else. Many folks see dogs acting in certain ways, and assume danger. Sometimes it's just a matter of the dog being playful. The key to telling which isnt the ears, nor even growling-which can also be playful- the key is the tail.
Tail-up= good to go, no worries no matter what else the dog is doing/saying
Tail-down= maybe you should walk NOT RUN the other way.
But shoot? Not mine, unless you have an overwhelming urge to feel 230 grains of John Browning's Happy Pills entering you.
 
Last edited:

xdmcompact

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
289
Location
St Louis City
Had it been my dog, you would have been recieving some return fire, without a doubt. It's a dog. Not hard to disarm, or out-smart. Throw something in another direction, it will usually run after it. No need for shots unless one's actually chomping down on someone,which -contrary to popular mythology- they will rarely do unless tormented or made to feel threatend.
This nonsense people hear in the news about dogs just mauling folks "for no apparent reason" is just that-nonsense.

I have a very playful pitbull. She's black, and runs very fast and jumps very high. Sometimes folks see it in passing and are terrified, and I have to explain to them that no, she's more likely to lick all the skin off your face, than anything else. Many folks see dogs acting in certain ways, and assume danger. Sometimes it's just a matter of the dog being playful. The key to telling which isnt the ears, nor even growling-which can also be playful- the key is the tail.
Tail-up= good to go, no worries no matter what else the dog is doing/saying
Tail-down= maybe you should walk NOT RUN the other way.
But shoot? Not mine, unless you have an overwhelming urge to feel 230 grains of John Browning's Happy Pills entering you.

So you feel that if your dog attacked someone and they had to defend themselves against it, that your dog's life is worth more than a humans? This world has gotten out of hand when people feel that an animal's life is worth more than a human beings life.
 

mspgunner

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Ellisville, Missouri, USA
Many people have Pit Bulls that are "friendly family pets".. That's Ok, but once in a while (As reported in the news) these little darlings will tear the neck of a child or infant wide open. Bad puppy! No dog is worth a human life, pit bull or other wise, they are nice pets, bu tthey are "ANIMALS" none the less.
 

Firedawg314

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
227
Location
Florissant, Mo
First question, if you fired into the ground, did you get a fine for discharge of a weapon? Surely the police heard the shot and came investigating. If not, did you think about getting the citation when the dog was charging? Now, if it were me and the dog had its ears back, teeth showing, and either barking or growling at me before charging. I would have not had a second thought in my head but protect myself, besides what was beyond the dog so as not to harm anyone. If I were to get the citation, I would have accepted it and possibly fought it in court.

I have asked around and NO ONE HEARD my gun shot!!!??? Yeah, its a .380. Kinda felt bad... my gun is so quiet. But all I could think about was not getting bit. I NEVER been bit, but I hard that German Sheaperds are the worse.

Overall, I think I should have "capped" the dog. But no, no citations etc... I got lucky.
 

Firedawg314

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
227
Location
Florissant, Mo
If you were in fear of your life you should dispatch the animal. If the shot you fired into the ground did not discourage the dog it couild be held that the shot made the dog attack you!
The Missouri wildlife code book, I don't have one handy,contains a chapter where discarge of firearm to protect yourself from an animal is acceptable.
"Warning shots are 100% wrong" If something goes wrong with a "warning shot" who is the agressor? YOU!

If you pull a firearm from it's holster in a dangerous situation, shoot to remove the danger, you are protecting yourself from immediate risk of losing your life.
"Warning shots" are for the movies, not real life!

Good point. I hate to say it... but next time, I will have a mess to clean up.
 

Firedawg314

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
227
Location
Florissant, Mo
A scary situation and one I'm glad you came out of alright. This has really got me thinking. I would not wish to kill anything, that I don't have to(may sound strange from a hunter, but I that's a different thread), but in this case I would have had to put the dog down. You said that you didn't fire a warning shot until the dog was three feet from you. What if that had not stopped the animal? Three feet can be covered almost instantaneously by a dog that size. You may have only had time for that one shot and you used it as a warning. Not judging, I was not there, and I am glad you were not hurt, just pointing out that in such a case you may have wasted your only opportunity for self defense. That was not the case this time and I am glad, both for you and the dog, but is it worth risking it if there is a next time?

The truly crazy thing is that had you shot the dog the police, probably would have been there in a flash, not 30 min. later, like when the dog chased the kids.

Anyway glad you came out OK.

In a way ( know its stupid), I was basically prepared when/if he bits me. First shot was a "warning", the next 14 would have been in him. Even if I where to be biten. Yeah, at 3 feet or even 10 feet, I should have put the dog down. just have to remember, if I pull it, to use it.
 

Firedawg314

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
227
Location
Florissant, Mo
Shooting into the ground would not have entered into my mind. I am not sure a firearm would have been employed at all actually. Since you describe it as in the loo, there was not a good potential backstop for a bullet.

The firearm is to stop threats of deadly force. A punch in the eye is not ample force to shoot someone. A dog bite while painful and potentially very dangerous I am not sure meets the criteria of deadly force without more mitigating factors.

1. I doubt I would have let a strange dog get within three feet of me.
2. When it lunged, I most likely would have punted its ass into the street, size 10 redwings make an awesome weapon.
3. I would have then began beating the ever loving crap out of it.
4. If by chance it got me into a position where I feared for my life, I would have shot it dead but understand, the muzzle of my weapon would be in contact or within a couple of inches before I pulled the trigger.

IMHO no dog is a competitive factor for s full grown healthy man, killing it with your bare hands is not a particularly hard task. In the case of your father or others whom might be in ill health or lack the strength to fight it off, the situation is different.

I see your points... this was damn Cou-jo looking dog. Normally, if I have to "fight" a dog, yeah, I would have kicked etc... but this dog looked very much of a 150 lb or more. I guess I just figured it was someone's dog and it got out... But at the same time... I'm like... I need to get out of here.
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,764
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
You done good, except for firing the first shot into the ground. I've had to hunt feral dogs and I did not want any one of them to get closer than fifty yards to me. Even then, they can cover fifty yards pretty quickly.

I, too, would hate to have to shoot someone's pet, but if that pet comes after this old man, I will do whatever it takes to stop the attack. As for the owner, he/she should have had their animal under better control. And a 130lb dog of any breed is, at my age, a threat to my life if it attacks. Not to mention that, if there are children in the area, I would not want it on my conscience that I let an aggressive animal go away to later hurt a child.
 
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