CADL reversal and open carry in schools

Does the recent reversal of the CADL case have any immediate effect on the recent incidences of schoold districts banning open carry in their schools?

Funny you ask. Same thing being discussed on MCO. I'll summarize 4 pages of discussion: we don't know.

Michigan Codified Law 750.237a(5)(c), as is found within Chapter XXXVII of ACT 328 of 1931, says that The Provisions of what is Considered 'Proscribed Conduct' does NOT Apply to any Person who is: '...[L]icensed by This State or another State to Carry a Concealed Weapon.' .

The Argument that 'Schools' are NOT 'Local Governmental Units' as are Defined under Section 1102(a) of Chapter 123 under ACT 319 of 1990, may NOT Defend a School under Attack for its Illegal Policies Pursuant to The Order and Llweyn Argument that The Michigan Appeals Court Issued against CADL.

The Michigan Appeals Court did, however, have 1 Lone Dissenting Justice who Left Open The Argument that Legislative Oversight may be Needed to Correct The Current Deficiency in what Michigan Considers a Local Governmental Unit. I Surmise that The Following Language be Inserted within The Statute:

1102(a) [...] [For The Purposes of This Chapter, The Term 'Local Governmental Unit' also Includes all of The Following: any Agency, any Authority, any Board, any Body, any Bureau, any Committee, any Commission, any Department, any Division, any Entity, or any other Instrumentality of any City, County, Township, or Village, and Includes, without Limitation, whether such is Created by, among, or between Them, whether for a General Purpose, Special Purpose, Temporary Purpose, or a Special Purpose, and regardless if The Same is only Established by 1 of Those Units, or more than 1 of Those Units in a Joint-Partnership.

Then again though..., I am NOT a Member of The Michigan Legislature...

tenletters said:

Does the recent reversal of the CADL case have any immediate effect on the recent incidences of schoold districts banning open carry in their schools?

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The court found that CADL was a "quasi-municipal corporation, i.e., a governmental agency authorized by constitution or statute to operate for and about the business of the state."

It then went on to say that such a corporation or agency is subject to preemption in regulating firearms.

So, if a school district is a "quasi-municipal corporation, i.e., a governmental agency authorized by constitution or statute to operate for and about the business of the state", then it can be likewise subject to preemption. Those school districts that have banned OC either will agree that they are such a corporation or agency and will get out of the business of regulating firearms, or they will not. If not, they will have to be taken to court. The strategy in court would be either to have them ruled that they are such an agency or corporation or via some other avenue that preemption applies to them.

Like I said, 4 pages of debate over on MGO making arguments on both side (lawyers also making arguments on both sides).

Stu says: no, k-12/comm colleges/unis won't be impacted.

Shyster say: yes

So the answer is: we don't know.


I personally could make arguments both for and against.

Could you please provide a link to the MGO thread? Thank you

tenletters said:

Could you please provide a link to the MGO thread? Thank you

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http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=199393

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TheQ said:

Like I said, 4 pages of debate over on MGO making arguments on both side (lawyers also making arguments on both sides).

Stu says: no, k-12/comm colleges/unis won't be impacted.

Shyster say: yes

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Where does Stu say that? In the thread you linked, Stu says a good case can be made for preemption (and he would like to go after UofM), SteveS agreed, and Shyster didn't say anything except "hmmmm."

TheQ said:

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=199393

You have to be signed in with a free account to view the thread.

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The discussion there is centered more around universities and not public school districts. I am not a lawyer, but I think the matter regarding school districts is much clearer that preemption would apply... the argument that school districts are "quasi-municipal corporations" was pretty explicit.

However, in regards to universities and colleges, they have at times been considered exempt from state law and other times it has been decided that they must follow state law, especially in matters of important public policy. That being the case, until we actually have a case in which a university's ordinances are are argued in front of a judge, we really don't know. But, the issue regarding k-12 school districts appears to have been covered in this decision. Does anyone know if CADL is going to appeal to the MI Supreme Court?

DrTodd said:

Does anyone know if CADL is going to appeal to the MI Supreme Court?

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The board hasn't made a decision yet.

griffin said:

The board hasn't made a decision yet.

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If they do, I'm sure Dean will be the first to find out. I'll probably be the second.

has the FOIA request been submitted to find out the total taxpayer cost of this endeavor?

lapeer20m said:

has the FOIA request been submitted to find out the total taxpayer cost of this endeavor?

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Yes. I submitted one a few days ago (Friday, the day the Court of Appeals decision was published).

Because I believe this whole case was an attempt to bring in a new era of gun control by using "Authorities" of all kinds to ban guns everywhere from libraries to Downtown Development Authorities to an as yet to have been created The Anti Gun We Are Gonna Ban All Guns Authority.... I think if would be interesting to see if all monies used by the library for legal expenditures were from taxpayers of if there were contributions made to the library from ... say... moveon.org or a similar gun control entity.

Or perhaps I've become overly suspicious of late.

Bikenut said:

Because I believe this whole case was an attempt to bring in a new era of gun control by using "Authorities" of all kinds to ban guns everywhere from libraries to Downtown Development Authorities to an as yet to have been created The Anti Gun We Are Gonna Ban All Guns Authority.... I think if would be interesting to see if all monies used by the library for legal expenditures were from taxpayers of if there were contributions made to the library from ... say... moveon.org or a similar gun control entity.

Or perhaps I've become overly suspicious of late.

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I think that's in the FOIA

TheQ said:

Like I said, 4 pages of debate over on MGO making arguments on both side (lawyers also making arguments on both sides).

Stu says: no, k-12/comm colleges/unis won't be impacted.

Shyster say: yes

So the answer is: we don't know.


I personally could make arguments both for and against.

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I just read this thread on MGO. My feeling from the discussion is that most, including attorneys are actually cautiously agree that preemption should apply to public schools, colleges and universities as a result of the recent CoA ruling.

sasha601 said:

I just read this thread on MGO. My feeling from the discussion is that most, including attorneys are actually cautiously agree that preemption should apply to public schools, colleges and universities as a result of the recent CoA ruling.

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In another thread (it's in the OC forum maybe or the gun rights litigation forum) Stu said not so much *shrugs*.

It will apply to schools also, but it will have to go through the courts first.

BoiledFrogs said:

It will apply to schools also, but it will have to go through the courts first.

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I assume you mean a public school that has taken upon itself to regulate firearms. There are steps that can be taken, in order of escalation, before court action:

1) You personally can communicate with the school and its attorney, referencing the CADL v MOC decision.

2) Request a gun-rights advocacy group (MOC, MGO, etc.) communicate to the school.

3) Have your attorney communicate to the school (make sure she/he is aware of CADL v MOC).

Before anyone does anything, I think it's best we let the case "settle in".

If you want to know why or how long, PM me.