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Public handling of firearms

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
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827
Location
Seattle WA
I'm of the opinion that in order to normalize the idea of bearing arms I would OC exclusively. However what if there is a curious member of the public that wants to take a look at it? Now, clearly one would have to be well on his guard but is there a way to show a person the firearm without inducing panic, falling foul of brandishing laws etc. While many have become aware I am a rather militant Constitutionalist I will certainly accept the fact some will be genuinely curious and yet not afraid. I know the first time I saw a semi-automatic at a Christian camp in Ohio on a member some 10+ years ago I was a little wow-ed and curious but certainly not afraid. Went on to shoot clay pigeons using what i'm guessing was a rifle but all I know is it wasnt a handgun. In any case what options would I have?
 

PeterNSteinmetz

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
177
Location
Tempe, Arizona
A handgun can be unloaded and some basic rules reviewed before allowing someone to look at a gun. Somewhat harder with a long gun because of muzzle control. But if no one else is near, it seems like it could work.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
"There are laws prohibiting the brandishing of firearms. I'm sorry, but showing you my handgun would involve violating those laws. If you want to see one like mine I suggest you go to a gun store where you would not be violating the laws against brandishing."

Twice now reporters have asked to see my handgun. Directly asked me to take it out of the holster. Both times their TV cameras were rolling. Both times I gave them essentially the above response - while showing them my digital voice recorder with the red LED flashing. Aolo both times several other OCers who were with me chimed in with similar statements and similar displays of voice and video recorders of their own.

One reporter was young and at least appeared to be naive - the consensus was she was put up to asking the question. The other one was well-known as a gun control advocate.

There are other folks who, in social situations in public, seem to feel that hauling out and showing/passing around their BBQ gun is no big deal. Besides the possible legal aspects, the administrative handling of firearms just increases the number of chances for something to go wrong - anything from dropping your Colt Walker No. 1 to a NG.

YMMV.

stay safe.
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
Can't speak to WI but in TX we do not have a "brandishing" law. It wouldn't necessarily be illegal to clear your weapon and allow someone to look it over, but it'd still be very ill-advised in my opinion regardless of the legalities. BIG EDIT: Of course I am thinking of rifles since I am in Texas, handguns you cannot legally possess at all in public unless carrying "under the authority" of the CHL law, and the CHL law forbids the intentional display of the firearm to another person in public unless the use of force is justified. So, yeah...

Of course there are the safety issues, as mentioned...

But, I think maybe just as important is that perpetuating an attitude toward firearms that's casual enough to take it out of a holster or off of a shoulder in a public setting surrounded by strangers is not really beneficial. I think that responding that, no, they cannot see/hold your firearm serves to instill a respect and more serious attitude toward firearms that should be there.

Just my opinion.
 
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The Truth

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Jul 18, 2014
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Henrico
Personally, I get somewhat uncomfortable when a certain friend of mine "shows me his guns." I always feel as if the person who is showing me the weapon is less safe than I am, and although I've never had a friend have an accident and nothing truly unsafe has ever happened when handling a firearm with my friends, this is simply my mindset. I'll call a cease-fire in a heartbeat if I see unsafe practices. I'm a true stickler for gun safety and I scrutinize people's every move when handling a firearm. As said in another thread I even carry Condition 3 whenever I have my 19 month old with me. I've since decided to carry Condition 2 at all times except late night situations. This is irrelevant, but some background.

That being said, I tend to agree with Skidmark and would likely reply in the same manner.

Unrelated - at Colonial gun club in VA the guy behind the counter swept the muzzle of a 9mm pistol I was renting for my fianceE ;) right through my and her center mass. Granted, the action was open and it was unloaded. I didn't say anything, but it really pissed me off. I don't care if you just 5 seconds ago held the open action up to the sun and could count the rifling grooves in the barrel with the magazine in your hand - you simply never point a gun in the direction of anyone, ever, unless you intend on killing them. Period. That's how my Dad taught me anyway. I even point the pistol down on its end as I carry it in the grocery basket from the desk to the range booth. I don't like being handed a weapon in a grocery basket like it's a bag of potato chips and I'm at the checkout. Just the same, I have only unholstered my pistol ONCE while carrying not at my home since I bought it, and I was inside my friend's house and spent about a minute and a half lecturing on safety procedure before I even unholstered it. His roommate was present and is a Navy veteran. Like I said, I'm just a stickler. I don't think it's appropriate in public view to brandish a firearm in any way shape or form unless it is being used in self-defense.
 

MAC702

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Jul 31, 2011
Messages
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Nevada
Even if it wasn't some clever ploy to get me to unload my sidearm, why would I?

If that particular person is a close enough acquaintance where I would show him my firearm, than he's also a close enough acquaintance to wait for another opportunity to do this in the privacy of a home or at a shooting range.

As for Condition 2, in addition to the awkwardness of cocking a single-action auto during the stress of needing it, there is the curious situation of how did you get the hammer down in the first place? This is not to say it can't be done, and cocking in itself is not a huge detriment, nor would I say someone can't carry a single-action revolver which would need it for every shot. You are just giving up many advantages of a design that can safely have a cocked hammer while carrying.

As for Condition 3, an unloaded chamber, even if I knew I had the time to load it, I'd hate having to hope I had both hands free to do so, especially if one of those hands may be trying to control or protect a child in the mix. Never mind the stress involved in such a critical function and one of the most likely times to induce a malfunction.

I just don't see why there is any justification for not carrying a gun ready to go, when that is its design. If there is some sort of "safety" being attempted, holster design needs to be brought back to the table.

If a firearm type was mentioned, I missed it, so this applies to a single-action semi-automatic, which is the usual design when the "Conditions" are being discussed.
 
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The Truth

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Jul 18, 2014
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Henrico
Interesting, that's the first time in a while I've heard of someone carrying in condition 2 recently. Just curious what your thinking is?

I've found that I am actually more accurate shooting double-action, and in terms of the time it takes to draw and shoot, the difference between SA/DA is basically none for me. Maybe some guys want to be able to shoot as fast as possible, but for me that extra millisecond is going to be spent making sure I am properly aimed and if possible I will strife, not concentrating on how hard or fast I need to pull the trigger. Plus it takes basically zero effort for me to cock the hammer back as I draw if I want SA. A short, swift strife as I'm about to shoot is an ideal situation for me, playing both offense and defense. If I was ever truly in that kind of danger and it wasn't hand to hand contact, I wouldn't want to be flat footed.

In the case of a safety mechanism, I'd imagine I would carry Condition 0 in high stress situations or Condition 3. I see no point in carrying with the safety on, personally.
 

MAC702

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Nevada
I've found that I am actually more accurate shooting double-action, and in terms of the time it takes to draw and shoot, the difference between SA/DA is basically none for me. Maybe some guys want to be able to shoot as fast as possible, but for me that extra millisecond is going to be spent making sure I am properly aimed and if possible I will strife, not concentrating on how hard or fast I need to pull the trigger. Plus it takes basically zero effort for me to cock the hammer back as I draw if I want SA. A short, swift strife as I'm about to shoot is an ideal situation for me, playing both offense and defense. If I was ever truly in that kind of danger and it wasn't hand to hand contact, I wouldn't want to be flat footed.

In the case of a safety mechanism, I'd imagine I would carry Condition 0 in high stress situations or Condition 3. I see no point in carrying with the safety on, personally.

Okay, what firearm type are you using, and what are you calling Condition 0?
 

The Truth

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Henrico
there is the curious situation of how did you get the hammer down in the first place?

My P229 has a de-cocking lever.

As for Condition 3, an unloaded chamber, even if I knew I had the time to load it, I'd hate having to hope I had both hands free to do so, especially if one of those hands may be trying to control or protect a child in the mix. Never mind the stress involved in such a critical function and one of the most likely times to induce a malfunction.

I no longer carry Condition 3, although I did for a while. I also practiced the Modified Israeli Mossad Draw fairly regularly.

I just don't see why there is any justification for not carrying a gun ready to go, when that is its design. If there is some sort of "safety" being attempted, holster design needs to be brought back to the table.

See above post.
 

The Truth

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Okay, what firearm type are you using, and what are you calling Condition 0?

Sig Sauer P229SP .40

I understand it this way:

0 = safety off, cocked, one in the hole, loaded mag
1 = safety on, cocked, one in the hole, loaded mag
2 = de-cocked, one in the hole, loaded mag
3 = de-cocked, empty hole, loaded mag
4 = de-cocked, empty hole, empty mag

EDIT* I also use a holster that is strictly friction retention. No straps or anything, just a tight leather sheath.

Correct me if I am mistaken...
 
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kinggabby

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
84
Location
Duncan, Ok
I agree it is stupid to handle your firearm in public. The only time mine would come out is if I had to use it Heaven forbid.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,428
Location
northern wis
For those of you who think Israeli style is the thing to do.

How to you carry a revolver.

A well designed modern firearm Like the Sigs only discharge for one reason some one pulled the trigger on a loaded chamber.

When it comes to saving your life KISS works very well. In training I seen way to many TRAINED people let alone persons who do not train a lot screw up when adding extra steps into the process.

That in just in training let alone when some one is trying to kill you.

As far as handling guns in public I see no reason to un holster and just show people ones EDC.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I'm of the opinion that in order to normalize the idea of bearing arms I would OC exclusively. However what if there is a curious member of the public that wants to take a look at it? Now, clearly one would have to be well on his guard but is there a way to show a person the firearm without inducing panic, falling foul of brandishing laws etc...
You're kidding, right?

You're not kidding??? :banghead: :banghead:
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
I wonder how many Israelis would choose to carry an empty chamber if they weren't forced to do so by someone with a desk job.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Some of you do not have laws against brandishing. That law here in Virginia is my fall-back for not coming across as mean-spirited and not willing to share and whatever else somebody might think of me when I tell them "No". It's also my teachable moment - we "gun nuts" both know the laws and we obey them.

What do you folks say - other than just plain "No"?

Can you turn the situation into a teachable moment? What do you try to teach the other person? How do you do it without getting all wrapped up in jargon like "administrative handling" and "booger hook"/"bang switch"?

stay safe.
 
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