Harrisburg Hospital says "it's not fairrrr!"

:banghead:
went to visit my stepdaughter in hbg hosp last night. walked by security, and reception, oc'ing of course.
i sat in the waiting room for like 20 mins to no event, security guards looking down at my gun then back at me and walking by. no problem.
suddenly one of the guards comes out looking for brittney. i guess his babys mom must have caused a scene or something, because i was escorted to the security desk where they told me i needed to RELINQUISH MY FIREARM TO THEM, WITH NOWHERE FOR THEM TO PUT IT AND NO RECEIPT, or leave. i told them it's my right to carry my firearm. they told me "they're pretty sure i can't, but ask the police."
as if on queue, a police officer approaches behind me, i show him my license to carry.
he looked at me, then my license, then me, smiled, handed it back and ws on his way.
so i asked them to show me in writing where it says i can't carry my gun.
at this time i'm told that i may not go back to waiting to see my sd, i have to wait there for a supervisor.
a half hour passes, and finally the supervisor approaches, and proceeds to show me their policy regarding their security guards not being able to have guns. he said, and i quote, "IT SAYS IT'S FOR THE SECURITY, BUT REALLY IT'S HOSPITAL WIDE, WHICH MEANS EVERYONE THAT IS IN THE HOSPITAL. WE CAN'T HAVE GUNS." then, i suppose, just to make me laugh, he says (after i'd already showed him my license to carry), "I HAVE A LICENSE FROM THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE THAT ALLOWS ME TO CARRY CONCEALED AND I CANT HAVE MY GUN IN HERE". LOL. ol. ol. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
so, at this point, the only reason he's given me that i can't carry my firearm is that he cant have one so why should i be allowed to have one, and hasn't come up with a valid point.
i told him i'd see him in court, have a nice day, and i walked out of the hospital.
he proceeded to FOLLOW ME OUT OF THE HOSPITAL!!!!
Youve already held me at your desk for a half hour, and now you're following me out of the hospital? so you can yell at me? really?
so he kept jabbering about how even though it says nowhere that i cant have my gun, i still cant have it, and after my repetitive "it's my right according to the constitution" statement, he tells me to leave the premises. he tells me to do what i was already in the middle of doing before he chased me out of the hospital. after asking my man for my info and not getting it, he walked back in as angry as could be. and then they told sean he can't go back to see his daughter because i, who was no longer on the premises at that time, had a gun.
so basically the security guards threw a temper tantrum because i had a gun and they didn't. they got into a d**** measuring contest with a 4'9" 24 yr old female. why?

Brittney Fairlamb said:

SNIP why?

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You answered your own question. Because they were not allowed to have guns, but you had one.

Being a woman, exposing the holes in their arguments, and being independent-minded didn't help none neither, I am sure.

What a pleasant, heart-warming little story.

Welcome to the forum!!

Hurt them.

Thank you, citizen

Welcome to the site. If your looking for more info please see the link in my sig for lot's of valuable legal info along with informative videos etc.

Going back to the security guards...One thing I have learned is they always seem to think they have more authority than they do. Hmm does that sound familiar. I was speaking with an officer once and she referenced a call coming from a security guard, and she didn't have very nice things to say about them. I would personally take the issue up with the highest in management you can get. Start with security, then speak with the hospital management. You were clearly treated unfairly and asked to leave for no reason. The officer obviously had no problem with you. Why should the hospital? Assuming you're able to carry there without violating any rules. Worst case just CC if you have to go back.

Ps: I would be intimidated by a 4'9" girl carrying, and articulate enough to poke huge holes in everything I said too. I just would have responded differently. They were clearly intimidated, and didn't know how to act.

If we can take a break from the back slapping 'n good job talk, let's look at realities.

First question is who owns the hospital? Most are private, but a few are municipally owned. Presuming it is private, they had every right to ask you to either remove the weapon or leave the property. Your 2A rights end where their private property rights begin.

The LEO wanting to check your permit in Pa. where no LTCH is necessary to OC except in a vehicle? I don't think so, unless (maybe) doing so would have eased the situation with the hospital, but there is no legal obligation.

Bottom line - you did yourself and us a disservice by not being better informed and more pleasant in your demeanor. You could have been arrested for trespassing if you were asked to leave and did not.

What would seem to be more egregious is their refusing to let Sean see his daughter - most particularly if she is a minor. That would have generated an immediate phone call to my attorney.

Grapeshot said:

If we can take a break from the back slapping 'n good job talk, let's look at realities.

First question is who owns the hospital? Most are private, but a few are municipally owned. Presuming it is private, they had every right to ask you to either remove the weapon or leave the property. Your 2A rights end where their private property rights begin.

The LEO wanting to check your permit in Pa. where no LTCH is necessary to OC except in a vehicle? I don't think so, unless (maybe) doing so would have eased the situation with the hospital, but there is no legal obligation.

Bottom line - you did yourself and us a disservice by not being better informed and more pleasant in your demeanor. You could have been arrested for trespassing if you were asked to leave and did not.

What would seem to be more egregious is their refusing to let Sean see his daughter - most particularly if she is a minor. That would have generated an immediate phone call to my attorney.

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Correct Grapeshot. While I certainly appreciate young ladies taking responsibility for their own life, it should be remembered one of the rights inherent to life, including the right to protect one's, is the right to private property (your own belongings including yourself). If the hospital is a private hospital then you must abide by their wishes by using their property. Remember your rights do not come from the US Constitution or any document, but they are yours along with your life, these documents only provide limited recognition and protection of those rights by certain parties (namely the applicable government).

I realize chase was the wrong word to use. Followed is what I meant to say. I was leaving, and he followed me after I was already out and kept badgering me until I turned around and said something back. I left. I was done with the conversation. And I was at all times very polite.
And I think security guards are insecure because theyre flashlight cops. And they know it.

Presuming this is the correct hospital: PennacleHealth Care - Harrisbug Hospital.
http://www.pinnaclehealth.org/

Under the Visitor & Patient Information is found a section Code of Conduct:

"Possession of weapons are not permitted"

It seems a bit unusual that neither security nor a hospital administrator would not be able to point this out quickly and easily.

Grapeshot said:

Presuming this is the correct hospital: PennacleHealth Care - Harrisbug Hospital.
http://www.pinnaclehealth.org/

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Yes, presuming that is the correct hospital, we also find this:

http://www.pinnaclehealth.org/about-pinnaclehealth/

"About PinnacleHealth
. . . . a non-profit organization . . . . "

I'll take that at its face value and assume it's a private hospital (although government hospitals are also "non-profit").

If it's private (as opposed to government) property, you leave when asked, no matter the reason.

Grapeshot said:

Presuming this is the correct hospital: PennacleHealth Care - Harrisbug Hospital.
http://www.pinnaclehealth.org/

Under the Visitor & Patient Information is found a section Code of Conduct:

"Possession of weapons are not permitted"

It seems a bit unusual that neither security nor a hospital administrator would not be able to point this out quickly and easily.

Click to expand...

When I've encountered such postings/policies/regulations I've asked if those who make such rules are now assuming responsibilty for my safety?? I have yet to have anyone answer 'yes' to that question.

And, who in their right mind would hassle a 4'9" chick? It's the sweet, little ones that fly under the radar, will cut off your **** if you **** them off, and be the last person suspected!

...just kidding....kinda...

I know that SCOTUS has ruled that Corporations are, in fact, People, and therefore are to be extended ALL the rights and privileges due to People.

But I think this concept of Corporate Personhood is a VERY dangerous legal construct, and isn't something we should support.

All "private" property is not the same...

I do not open my doors for anyone who comes along and rings the doorbell.

Corporations do.

Entities that exist SOLELY to service the public, or to engage in private commerce with the public are not really the same sort of "private" property that my house is. "Private" hospitals are, IMO, no different than Best Buys or Starbucks (well, except that when you utilize the service of a Starbucks or a Best Buys, you don't have a 1 in 10 chance of being killed or seriously maimed at their hands while on their property due to incompetence or errors...)

I'm getting a little tired of this whole "your second amendment stops at the property line" argument. It has NOTHING to do with "private property" when we're talking about businesses that exist solely to engage in commerce with the public. There is no "individual" who owns such property.

Corporations are NOT people. To establish this legal construct as "law of the land" is tantamount to officially declaring that our government has publicly and unapologetically converted to Fascism.

"F" the opinion of SCOTUS on this matter. And the corporate horses they rode in on...

Am not in disagreement with that Dreamer.

I have long held the personal view that if you invite the public, then you accept the public as long as they are in accordance with the laws. In other words, you cannot ban people with red shirts, wearing hats or legally carrying handguns. My word forced on this application is "quasi-public." Privately owned, but inviting and doing business with the public. Sure there would need to be additional control elements, but only from a practical operation stand point.

Unfortunately, I do not see the support for this within our legislature or even with a large portion of those here. Even considering personal property rights though, I see this as a reasonable solution.

The sad part is that the government will only support property rights when it suits them. If anyone doubts this, just ask Mrs. Kelo from New Haven.

if hospital staff said that you weren't allowed to carry, the least you should have done is conceal it. the have the right to ask you to leave the property; not doing so when asked means you're trespassing, and you can be jailed for that.

i've carried guns in hospitals; one of them had clear signs stating that weapons weren't allowed in, so i carried concealed. hospitals are like malls: just assume that guns are banned in them.