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New gun owner got answer for carry gun to shooting range

Warthog45acp

New member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
4
Location
San Francisco, California
Hi, I've just purchased a handgun recently, and I was wondering if it is legal to carry a handgun (not loaded) inside backpack on bus/public transportation to shooting range? If not, how does one go to shooting range without a car? I don't want to waste money on Taxi.

PS: I live in San Francisco, California.
 

Gundude

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
1,691
Location
Sandy Eggo County
Hi, I've just purchased a handgun recently, and I was wondering if it is legal to carry a handgun (not loaded) inside backpack on bus/public transportation to shooting range? If not, how does one go to shooting range without a car? I don't want to waste money on Taxi.

PS: I live in San Francisco, California.

Lock the backpack and you're good to go. Don't tell anyone that you are carrying.
 

ConditionThree

State Pioneer
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,231
Location
Shasta County, California, USA
Hi, I've just purchased a handgun recently, and I was wondering if it is legal to carry a handgun (not loaded) inside backpack on bus/public transportation to shooting range? If not, how does one go to shooting range without a car? I don't want to waste money on Taxi.

PS: I live in San Francisco, California.

Yes, you can transport an unloaded handgun to and from a shooting range.

The following exemptions apply;

12026.1 a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.

(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.


626.9 (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.

Bear in mind, that the container must remain locked for the entire time you are transporting in public, or you will be carrying a 'concealed weapon' or in 'possession of a firearm' in a GFSZ.

ETA; There is a shooting range in San Fransisco? Did Gandalf cast a spell to thwart the evil in Mordor to make such a fantasy possible?
 
Last edited:

Warthog45acp

New member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
4
Location
San Francisco, California
First, I want to thank ConditionThree for the helpful information, and I have a question, isn't there a shooting range in San Francisco called the pacific Rod & Gun Club? located at 520 John Muir Drive on the southwestern shore of beautiful Lake Merced. It is near both Ocean Beach and San Francisco Zoo. http://prgc.net/our-location/
Or is it no longer opens?
 

bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
At one point there was a trap/skeet range at Lake Merced. I've never been there or seen it but supposedly it exists.

They don't search bags on Caltrain, there's way too many people getting on and off at once to make that feasible.

Just be wary of "sterile areas". If for some random reason they are searching bags, then that may be a sterile area and you'd be violating PC 171.7 by entering that area. The chances of that happening are extremely low though.
 

Warthog45acp

New member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
4
Location
San Francisco, California
Thanks bigtoe416, now I think I decided to take Caltrain to Jackson Arms located at South San Francisco. :) With pistol unloaded and put inside a locked hard gun case inside backpack.


At one point there was a trap/skeet range at Lake Merced. I've never been there or seen it but supposedly it exists.

They don't search bags on Caltrain, there's way too many people getting on and off at once to make that feasible.

Just be wary of "sterile areas". If for some random reason they are searching bags, then that may be a sterile area and you'd be violating PC 171.7 by entering that area. The chances of that happening are extremely low though.
 
Last edited:

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
So let's just think a little here......the below law gives me an interesting idea. Doesn't do anything to help with the SD function of carrying but definitely would push some buttons.....

Lets say I build a holster of material similar to a Serpa...some sort of composite or injection molded material. It's a hard shell, shaped just like a firearm (though over sized) and the firearm is contained within that holster. It is equipped with a locking mechanism that incorporates either:
1) a "handprint" with push buttons at the fingertips as seen in some home gunsafes
2) an electronic lock and key set with the "key" being in the form of a ring on the finger
3) Some other electronic locking device.

When the lock is latched the weapon is completely unseen and LOCKED in the case.

Actuating the lock with the key (whichever method is chosen for the mechanism) the top of the holster pops open under spring tension and the weapon is raised to "grip position" so that you can then insert your loaded magazine (or the side falls away to allow the same action).

The weapon is IN A LOCKED CONTAINER and it is UNLOADED so it is neither openly carried nor does it meet the definition of a concealed weapon (because it is locked in a case and unloaded).

HOWEVER....LEO will be abolutely sure that there is a weapon in that case (if the law doesn't prevent it in some other section the outer facing shell could even be made transparent). BUT...since it's in a locked case, it's not open carried, and wouldn't that preclude 12031 (e) as well as require a search warrant to unlock the case?

Also, does the unloaded requiremnt (while in the locked case) only apply within the GFSZ?

12026.1 a) (2) has no unloaded requirement, only locked case.
526.9 (c) (2) has the unloaded requirement even though in a locked case.



12026.1 a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

626.9 (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
 

ConditionThree

State Pioneer
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,231
Location
Shasta County, California, USA
L.u.c.c.

So let's just think a little here......the below law gives me an interesting idea. Doesn't do anything to help with the SD function of carrying but definitely would push some buttons.....

Lets say I build a holster of material similar to a Serpa...some sort of composite or injection molded material. It's a hard shell, shaped just like a firearm (though over sized) and the firearm is contained within that holster. It is equipped with a locking mechanism that incorporates either:
1) a "handprint" with push buttons at the fingertips as seen in some home gunsafes
2) an electronic lock and key set with the "key" being in the form of a ring on the finger
3) Some other electronic locking device.

When the lock is latched the weapon is completely unseen and LOCKED in the case.

Actuating the lock with the key (whichever method is chosen for the mechanism) the top of the holster pops open under spring tension and the weapon is raised to "grip position" so that you can then insert your loaded magazine (or the side falls away to allow the same action).

The weapon is IN A LOCKED CONTAINER and it is UNLOADED so it is neither openly carried nor does it meet the definition of a concealed weapon (because it is locked in a case and unloaded).

HOWEVER....LEO will be abolutely sure that there is a weapon in that case (if the law doesn't prevent it in some other section the outer facing shell could even be made transparent). BUT...since it's in a locked case, it's not open carried, and wouldn't that preclude 12031 (e) as well as require a search warrant to unlock the case?

Also, does the unloaded requiremnt (while in the locked case) only apply within the GFSZ?

12026.1 a) (2) has no unloaded requirement, only locked case.
626.9 (c) (2) has the unloaded requirement even though in a locked case.

Youre making this way more complicated than it needs to be...

Allow me to try to clarify.

12031 criminalizes the loaded firearm- not 12025 or 626.9. And then it only applies to incorporated territory OR areas where discharge is prohibited by local ordinance.

The case need only be fully enclosed and locked. Having it gun shaped and a locking mechanism rely on biometrics or other technology is over-thought.

The question you really should be asking is; Is a locked, fully enclosed case sufficient probable cause to demand a 12031(e) check? Think about it- if there is no evidence that a gun is present, is there any justification for the officer to demand a loaded inspection on a firearm he can only speculate exists inside a fully enclosed locked case? Transporting this way the handgun is not concealed, not openly carried, not loaded, and not violating the imaginary naughty line of the school zones. Is that same officer justified in demanding a search of a locked case to satisfy his curiosity as to whether a firearm is present?
 

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Firemark

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
445
Location
San Diego
Youre making this way more complicated than it needs to be...

Allow me to try to clarify.

12031 criminalizes the loaded firearm- not 12025 or 626.9. And then it only applies to incorporated territory OR areas where discharge is prohibited by local ordinance.

The case need only be fully enclosed and locked. Having it gun shaped and a locking mechanism rely on biometrics or other technology is over-thought.

The question you really should be asking is; Is a locked, fully enclosed case sufficient probable cause to demand a 12031(e) check? Think about it- if there is no evidence that a gun is present, is there any justification for the officer to demand a loaded inspection on a firearm he can only speculate exists inside a fully enclosed locked case? Transporting this way the handgun is not concealed, not openly carried, not loaded, and not violating the imaginary naughty line of the school zones. Is that same officer justified in demanding a search of a locked case to satisfy his curiosity as to whether a firearm is present?

Does bring up an interesting point which is that the mere visual presence of the firearm as seen by every day ordinary citzens and LEO's is the sheeple scaring issue. I think the whole ban it or keep it concealed is to just lull people into feeling safe.

If the legislature goes thru and gets UOC banned, and the collective "we" are unable to get it removed by court order, then I would definitley consider carrying a locked case that is both transparent and lockable with spring loaded release carried on the hip.
I mean really its going to get to the point of sheer lunacy and stupidity banning the 2A, but of course I wouldnt put it past the legislature to next year immediatley ban clear transparent plastic cases with unloaded handguns in them.

Remember we have to think about the children!!!

My new start up company..
TPS Gun Holsters ....(Transparent, Plastic, Spring-loaded)
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
My new start up company..
TPS Gun Holsters ....(Transparent, Plastic, Spring-loaded)

PM me for instructions on where to send the royalty/license payments. :D


The argument about PC could be a very interesting one. Imagine a group of citizens gathering at a well known open carrier "hangout" (think Starbucks) all wearing one of these (non transparent) holsters.....the police show up, the citizens stand by their rights, the cops can't get into the cases......

Would there be a mass arrest because the cops THINK there are firearms inside the cases even though they can not see them? What then happens when none of the cases are eventually found to have firearms in them?

The time has come to be more aggressive in tactics. TACTICS not physical action. Press them, set up the cases that will cause cities to pay out large sums in civil rights violation settlements. Take the bull by the horns.
 

Firemark

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
445
Location
San Diego
PM me for instructions on where to send the royalty/license payments. :D


The argument about PC could be a very interesting one. Imagine a group of citizens gathering at a well known open carrier "hangout" (think Starbucks) all wearing one of these (non transparent) holsters.....the police show up, the citizens stand by their rights, the cops can't get into the cases......

Would there be a mass arrest because the cops THINK there are firearms inside the cases even though they can not see them? What then happens when none of the cases are eventually found to have firearms in them?

The time has come to be more aggressive in tactics. TACTICS not physical action. Press them, set up the cases that will cause cities to pay out large sums in civil rights violation settlements. Take the bull by the horns.

Make sure the "cases" look like gun cases, and are carrying equivelant weight to appear like a gun (ballast bag), and a sturdy lock. and make sure there is a copy of the 4th ammendment inside in big bold letters. Of course dont forget to film it and have a prominent gun lawyer at the meet up to observe first hand.
 

Robin47

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
545
Location
Susanville, California, USA
Make sure the "cases" look like gun cases, and are carrying equivelant weight to appear like a gun (ballast bag), and a sturdy lock. and make sure there is a copy of the 4th ammendment inside in big bold letters. Of course dont forget to film it and have a prominent gun lawyer at the meet up to observe first hand.

Yeah I can't see why no one has filed a "Suit for Injunction "against the LEO's who violate your 4A.
That's what this all comes down to.
A statute or code don't trump the "Bill of Rights". Robin47
 

yawn

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
40
Location
west
So let's just think a little here......the below law gives me an interesting idea. Doesn't do anything to help with the SD function of carrying but definitely would push some buttons.....

Lets say I build a holster of material similar to a Serpa...some sort of composite or injection molded material. It's a hard shell, shaped just like a firearm (though over sized) and the firearm is contained within that holster. It is equipped with a locking mechanism that incorporates either:
1) a "handprint" with push buttons at the fingertips as seen in some home gunsafes
2) an electronic lock and key set with the "key" being in the form of a ring on the finger
3) Some other electronic locking device.

When the lock is latched the weapon is completely unseen and LOCKED in the case.

Actuating the lock with the key (whichever method is chosen for the mechanism) the top of the holster pops open under spring tension and the weapon is raised to "grip position" so that you can then insert your loaded magazine (or the side falls away to allow the same action).

The weapon is IN A LOCKED CONTAINER and it is UNLOADED so it is neither openly carried nor does it meet the definition of a concealed weapon (because it is locked in a case and unloaded).

HOWEVER....LEO will be abolutely sure that there is a weapon in that case (if the law doesn't prevent it in some other section the outer facing shell could even be made transparent). BUT...since it's in a locked case, it's not open carried, and wouldn't that preclude 12031 (e) as well as require a search warrant to unlock the case?

Also, does the unloaded requiremnt (while in the locked case) only apply within the GFSZ?

12026.1 a) (2) has no unloaded requirement, only locked case.
526.9 (c) (2) has the unloaded requirement even though in a locked case.



12026.1 a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

626.9 (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.

OH MY!!! This is an excellent idea for a holster and one I would seriously consider buying! But, would it work... especially if it it clear? Conditionthree... does your set-up allow you through school zones then? Could you legally conceal your locked case?
 
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