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Got Pulled over today........

rotorhead

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
862
Location
FL
Thanks anyway... but I don't have to worry about that boss thing.

Isn't there a difference between doing a 'good job', and just doing the job you're supposed to do? Praise for exceptional work can be warranted at times... but how is not violating ones rights 'doing a good job'?? its not.

In my last post, I showed that there's a difference between violating someone's rights and doing a job one way and another. Taking the OP out of his car and detaining him and his firearm would not have violated any rights in that traffic stop, yet it would have still been a pain in the ass to have to go through that. Instead the Trooper used some discretion and decided it was safe enough to not put the OP through that process.

Given the two ways it could have went, the Trooper could have chosen either yet still not have violated the OP's rights. In this incident I think that the Trooper did a good job. Remember, this was a traffic stop, not a random stop because he was carrying a gun. Different rules apply and the Trooper could have easily made this stop worse than it was while still not violating any rights.
 

Blk97F150

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
1,179
Location
Virginia
In my last post, I showed that there's a difference between violating someone's rights and doing a job one way and another. Taking the OP out of his car and detaining him and his firearm would not have violated any rights in that traffic stop, yet it would have still been a pain in the ass to have to go through that. Instead the Trooper used some discretion and decided it was safe enough to not put the OP through that process.

Given the two ways it could have went, the Trooper could have chosen either yet still not have violated the OP's rights. In this incident I think that the Trooper did a good job. Remember, this was a traffic stop, not a random stop because he was carrying a gun. Different rules apply and the Trooper could have easily made this stop worse than it was while still not violating any rights.

I'll just leave it at this... if you want to offer praise to LEO in that situation.... have at it. Others may not feel that same circumstances are worthy of any level of praise.

Have a nice day....
 

Blk97F150

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
1,179
Location
Virginia
When there is a constant battle between non-informed LEO's and OCers, any GOOD thing that can be done can't hurt, but only help matters. If people are only inclined to complain but never praise, then why would anyone in any job bother putting forth any effort in doing what's required?

Maybe we are using the wrong wording, instead of "praise", how about "Thank You" to a LEO doing just his job. Think about the crap he has to put up with and yes, before you go off about it's his choice to have that job, the same could be said about ANY public service job, from LEO doing their job, to the sales clerk that even though had been on shift for 8 hours and had 4 more to go that was nice to the person being an ******* to him/her, to the person that collects your trash.

Its all about human nature in EVERYBODY, not just LEOs. Remember, it takes TWO sides to make a coin. We cant expect LEOs to do their job as expected and then those that go above and beyond and not do our jobs a human beings and just be courtious.

Once again, I am not berating anyone on this forum and I am sorry if it came across that way, just my own thoughts and feeling being tossed out as food for thought.

Semper Fi !

I missed your post before I responded to the next one....(still trying to figure out this forum's format). I'll repeat, that if you feel the situation warranted giving the cop a 'good job award'... have at it. I just don't it view it that way. If he had've done something 'above and beyond'... sure. Some level of apprciation might be nice. But not for a routine, what should be expected, level of service.

If I eat at a restaurant and get what should be the expected level of service I don't go to the manager and tell them that the server did a 'good job'..... however if I did receive service that was 'above and beyond' the expected level, then yes... I might do that (and have often). But again, not for the 'normal' level.

The bigger issue as I see it, and was noted in my original comment, is that the routine level of service with LEOs seems to have changed. It seems there is a lower expectation, or almost an expectation that LEOs will violate ones rights... and when they don't, then that is viewed as a 'good thing', and worthy of an 'atta boy' award. That was more the basis of my original comment. :)

Just a difference of viewpoints.... no biggie.

OT-If you haven't been to the Quantico Marine Corps Museum...add it to your 'must do' list. Its very nice!
 

rotorhead

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
862
Location
FL
I'll just leave it at this... if you want to offer praise to LEO in that situation.... have at it. Others may not feel that same circumstances are worthy of any level of praise.

Have a nice day....

Your choice of the word praise indicates to me that you get my point, but simply choose to deride my intentions. It's not praise I'm talking about, it's a simple acknowledgment that I appreciate him not being a dick when he could have been.

But you know that already.

Either way, I reckon I'm done here.
 

Blk97F150

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
1,179
Location
Virginia
Your choice of the word praise indicates to me that you get my point, but simply choose to deride my intentions. It's not praise I'm talking about, it's a simple acknowledgment that I appreciate him not being a dick when he could have been.

But you know that already.

Either way, I reckon I'm done here.

I think you misunderstand... I'm not choosing to 'deride' anything (but honestly thought that you were doing the same to me... go figure).

(I'm not sure how to do multiple quotes here.. so I'll do it this way)
<<it's a simple acknowledgment that I appreciate him not being a dick when he could have been>>

And that was the point.... 'not being a dick when could have been'. Again, back to my original comment... I think that its sad that we, as a society, almost expect LEOs to act liike a 'dick'..... and thus feel the need to 'thank' them for not being one.

No biggie... I suspect we really aren't that far off in the end.
 

rotorhead

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
862
Location
FL
lol I think we're closer than we think we are too.

I apologize if any of my posts on the subject appeared derisive. It wasn't my intention.

I dunno how else to explain it really. I guess it's like any other job that serves the public in some way. There are managers of stores who do nothing and act stupid, and there are others who do the little things to make your experience at his store better.

Same with (insert occupation here). Some people go about it in ways that earn nothing more than a slapping. Others do it the same job in a manner that stands out from the norm in a positive way. I agree that it's sad that we have come to expect a hard time when dealing with LEOs. In many cases the LEOs have earned the reputations, and in other ways they haven't. I usually don't have much mercy on whiners of any occupation they volunteered for. If they don't like it, go do something else. But even someone like me can appreciate the effort made even from cops when they do things decently for a change.

So yeah, I completely see your point and appreciate the position. Still though, I see nothing wrong with giving a pat on the head at times :)

Thanks.
 

Jerry1981

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
96
Location
Charlotte, North Carolina, , USA
I have a family in law enforcement and they will be the first to tell you that sometimes they come off as ***** is because of the people they deal with all day . They do a service for the people and they take a lot of **** for it and never get any good thanks for all the good they do so I could understand why they get angry all the time. I think thanking an officer once in a while is a good thing like thanking a soldier they are trying to keep us safe and rarely get any appreciation . And there not doing a regular job like a cashier at a store they are going above and beyond to help us in time of need.
 
M

mattwestm

Guest
I understand that they deal with riff-raff on a regular basis, but that doesn't give them an excuse to be rude with the next citizen. When I worked at a grocery store, I couldn't be rude to every customer, just because I had a previous irritating customer. In most cases, county sheriff and PDs represents a city and county, and they should act as such.

When you hear about police wrongdoings, it makes the city, county, and state look really bad.
 

muccione

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
237
Location
Conover
to blame all the riff-raft for being a **** is BULL$HIT.... A cop is a **** because that is what he is..a ****... The reality is a good cop is hard to find...just like an employee.
My boss only tells me "thank-you" when I go beyond my normal tasks... Other than that its not needed or expected.. And just because Joe next to me is treating me like an ass doesn't mean I will treat the wife and kids like an ass.

If a LEO needs to get a thanks... than he should do his job... better than everyone else.... Write more tickets.. arrest more BG and get 100% conviction rates... you know POLICE!!!

The cops should say "THANK-YOU" to everyone who legally carries a firearm. We have taken responsibility for our own safety. We dont have to rely on LE. Most cops feel that they are the only ones that should have a gun...


If you are a man of honor and respect than that is what you will get back.
 

Jerry1981

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
96
Location
Charlotte, North Carolina, , USA
Im removing this you can keep your copy but all I have to say is I appreciate what they do and understand that they dont know everything and all they are trying to do is make sure everyone is safe. So i dont mind if they stop me for 5 mins to make sure everything is ok as long as im free to go afterwards and I dont condone when they go overboard thinking they know all and wont try to find the right answer. And yes if there were no police I have no doubt there would be way more shootings than there already are at least where I live anyway. I can get frustrated a little with them but respect what they are trying to do if you wish that they let everyone carry and not at least make sure only good citizens are doing so and not felons then I would not want to be around for that. Thats kinda all I meant I dunno why I put it the way I did before but whatever. Its my opinion you have your I appreciate what they do and what they do is above and beyond what anyone should have to do to make people like us safe. So like soldiers I do thank them for what they do just like firefighters emt all the people who choose to make a difference when they don't have to even if people act like its a regular job which it isn't
 
Last edited:

sultan62

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,311
Location
Clayton, NC
I'm sorry you guys feel that way and thet you compare what they are doing to bagging groceries. They are doing a very important job that they put a lot into that no one sees and deal with more than just riff raff . If you have a gun pulled on you 9 out of 10 time that 10th time your gonna be a little aggressive towards the tenth to make sure you make it out alive . Soldiers deal with the same stress and many times kill innocent people or hold them and they were just regular people. Its a tough job and if they didn't do it this place would be a constant shootout between people. I can live without the bagger but would not want to live without police. I don't condone a cop going overboard but being thorough is what they have to do to make sure everyone else is safe not just you. But I also think that they should have classes teaching them about issues they are not used to like open carry . Same for the dispatchers to ask all the questions so if an officer comes out and just sees a guy open carrying that he keeps on his way. Also you look at once situation that the cop had he may be going above and beyond every other situation and just handled something wrong and you dont commend him for any of that but only look at on situation where there was a concern and he addressed it. Yes there are bad cops but most are great . Im not gonna continue in this section because people look at it all wrong they complain about them until they are needed and they are needed more than a bagger. So please look at it from there side they are still people too and have a lot of dangerous situations to handle .

What are you talking about?!? They would be aggressive EVERY time a gun was pulled on them, and rightfully so!

Also - "constant shootout"? Really?
 

Ratt402

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
70
Location
Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
I have a few friends that are LEOs, even did a few ride-alongs and that was very enlightening.
Maybe before judging, we should try to walk a few miles in their shoes and see how it is instead of only seeing our point of view. We expect LEOs to see our side then is it not only common sense to do the same and try to see things from their side?
Let me run this past you. What if, what IF, your wife/girfriend/mother/sister was raped and you one day are in Food Lion or some other place with the loved one that was raped and she THOUGHT she saw the man who did it. You call the police, they come and you point the man out to the LEO. The LEO looks at the man just going around with a shopping cart, not doing anything wrong and there is NO PROOF(remember, she just THINKS it might be him) he did anything wrong, just the belief that he did. Your loved one is in tears but isnt sure it IS the man. What would you want the LEO to do then? Huh? Just do his job and shrug his shoulders and tell you that he isnt doing anything wrong at that time so there is no use in even going to talk to him and violate his rights by asking a few simple questions?

Funny, we want LEOs to be aggressive when they are working in OUR favor, but when its us they are being aggressive towards, then its a different story. Granted the example above is a bit extreme, but the point is still the same.

Being a former Marine, and having delt with what I have as far as stressful situations, the one thing that has always pissed me off the most is people who have NEVER been in the military, judging how our military soldiers from all branches operate in combat. So how can you judge the shoes till you walk in them?

Semper Fi !
 

sultan62

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,311
Location
Clayton, NC
I have a few friends that are LEOs, even did a few ride-alongs and that was very enlightening.
Maybe before judging, we should try to walk a few miles in their shoes and see how it is instead of only seeing our point of view. We expect LEOs to see our side then is it not only common sense to do the same and try to see things from their side?
Let me run this past you. What if, what IF, your wife/girfriend/mother/sister was raped and you one day are in Food Lion or some other place with the loved one that was raped and she THOUGHT she saw the man who did it. You call the police, they come and you point the man out to the LEO. The LEO looks at the man just going around with a shopping cart, not doing anything wrong and there is NO PROOF(remember, she just THINKS it might be him) he did anything wrong, just the belief that he did. Your loved one is in tears but isnt sure it IS the man. What would you want the LEO to do then? Huh? Just do his job and shrug his shoulders and tell you that he isnt doing anything wrong at that time so there is no use in even going to talk to him and violate his rights by asking a few simple questions?

Funny, we want LEOs to be aggressive when they are working in OUR favor, but when its us they are being aggressive towards, then its a different story. Granted the example above is a bit extreme, but the point is still the same.

Being a former Marine, and having delt with what I have as far as stressful situations, the one thing that has always pissed me off the most is people who have NEVER been in the military, judging how our military soldiers from all branches operate in combat. So how can you judge the shoes till you walk in them?

Semper Fi !

It's not extreme, it's completely irrelevant! Whereas your example may (or may not) constitute RAS/PC, lawful carry certainly does not.

All I expect out of officers is to follow the law.

Furthermore (and I am not saying this is your view) soldiers and LEOs are two very different things which serve very specific, and very different, purposes.
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
Bit off track--Had two experiences with NC State Cops when I worked there--but lived in VA. First one stopped me for speeding. I explained to him that his radar actually picked up a car on his side of a divided highway, not me. Explained radar works on best opportunity, unless it's track while scan. Asked me how I knew, told him what I had done in the military. Chatted for a while and was on my way. Good guy. Thanked me for my service and the lesson on radar bandwidth expansion. Had my P-90 with me and we agreed on Rugers being built like tanks.

2nd was this arrogant, black guy who had a reputation in the local area as a pos and racist--although I don't feel that was evident, at least with me, but his arrogance was. I attribute it to dealing with the locals who are not well educated or articulate, as it is tobacco farming area primarily, and hence easy to bully by authority. Claimed I was doing 65 in a 45. I was doing 60 in a 55. Had this attitude about my TX plates even after I explained I was in the process of moving and worked locally. Said give me the ticket, and I'll see you in court after I got tired of his BS. Got him on the witness stand and started to cut him in bitesized pieces. Judge said to approach, with the DA. Told us to work something out in the back room, as the audience was enjoying my performance too much. Others may have gotten--the mistaken, idea that justice existed in a traffic court. DA asked what I wanted. I said I was doing 60 in a 55--wasn't going to lie. He grabbed it and thanked me. 5 over was $25 plus costs, of course, but I don't lie under oath, so paid the fine, no points. My take on this is: same agency, purportedly same training at the academy; two cops from complete opposite spectra in LE with respect to professionalism. Both patroling roughly the same area. Not unique to NC of course, but I found it instructive.
 

muccione

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
237
Location
Conover
Im removing this you can keep your copy but all I have to say is I appreciate what they do and understand that they dont know everything and all they are trying to do is make sure everyone is safe. So i dont mind if they stop me for 5 mins to make sure everything is ok as long as im free to go afterwards and I dont condone when they go overboard thinking they know all and wont try to find the right answer. And yes if there were no police I have no doubt there would be way more shootings than there already are at least where I live anyway. I can get frustrated a little with them but respect what they are trying to do if you wish that they let everyone carry and not at least make sure only good citizens are doing so and not felons then I would not want to be around for that. Thats kinda all I meant I dunno why I put it the way I did before but whatever. Its my opinion you have your I appreciate what they do and what they do is above and beyond what anyone should have to do to make people like us safe. So like soldiers I do thank them for what they do just like firefighters emt all the people who choose to make a difference when they don't have to even if people act like its a regular job which it isn't

Benjamin Franklin said:
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

You give that cop your 5mins to feel save...
 

muccione

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
237
Location
Conover
It's not extreme, it's completely irrelevant! Whereas your example may (or may not) constitute RAS/PC, lawful carry certainly does not.

All I expect out of officers is to follow the law.

Furthermore (and I am not saying this is your view) soldiers and LEOs are two very different things which serve very specific, and very different, purposes.

We think alike Brother...... I feel ALL leos should follow the law like a Nun follows GOD... But reality is most Leos are like Priests.... Only obay when someone is looking/watching
 

Sc0tt

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
315
Location
Asheboro, NC
To me here is what does not follow.

If I am standing on a street, OC on my right hip and a LEO approaches from the left side he obviously can not see my firearm until I turn and face him, or he passes me. (And the position where I carry about 4:30ish probably cant see it there either) But you would not be required to produce a CHP.
However virtually everyone who is pulled over in the vehicle that has a hoslterd handgun is asked to produce a CHP on the grounds that the LEO cant see it.

I dont like putting my firearm in the front seat. Im single the front seat is for beer and grosherys. However not having a CHP I can almost guarantee that I would be charged with CCW since I dont have my CHP if I were to carry in a car the same way I carry on a street?
 

elixin77

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Messages
591
Location
Greenville, NC, ,
Scott, it really absolutely depends on the officer who pulled you over. IIRC, there isn't a law on the books that says that if you are OC'ing while driving, the gun should be here* (* is where the statute would say the gun would be).

However, that being said, the firearm is *technically* concealed because you are sitting on the gun. The AG has also issued a statement that says the best place for a gun to be (if not in your holster) is the passenger seat or the dash *if* you get pulled over, as the gun is in plain sight.

Now, this depends on the officer that pulled you over, because since there is no statute for or against carrying while driving, he can either be a complete douche and charge you with CCW, or be completely cool and say "thats fine, we have a more pressing issue..."

It really depends.

To be safe, it would be best to get one of those foamy plastic cabinet liner (the one with a crazy high friction coefficient), and put that on the dash (match colors though). Then, you can put your gun there without having to worry about it sliding every which way.

Take it as you will, IANAL
 

muccione

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
237
Location
Conover
I have a CHP and OC on my right hip while I drive. If I was to get pulled over I would unholster the XD and put it on my center console. It has a nice little tray it fits in nicely. I would NOT do this in front of the cop... It would be the second I seen the blue lights. So no reason to worry about "IF" its concealed or not..
 
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