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A Real Solution to Protect Our Children From Homicidal Maniacs

45acpForMe

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Joined
Nov 21, 2008
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2,805
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Yorktown, Virginia, USA
Back in the late 1980's when I went through the academy, we were told that in an emergency we could deputize anyone if that person's immediate assistance was critical to public safety. If it has changed, it has changed, but maybe User could clarify this?

Since the title of skidmarks law quote is "46.2-1310. Authority to deputize persons to direct traffic in certain circumstances." I would think they are simply clarifying that while someone is deputized for "that" purpose they don't have arrest powers. User can chime in and clear up how common law etc would allow/disallow this.

ODA 226, I just found this thread but great minds think alike. :) I sent an email 12/21/12 to Sheriff Danny Diggs about this exact subject. I haven't heard back yet.

Danny,
With the school massacre in CT there is a wide conversation on how to prevent future atrocities.
There are schools that allow teachers to carry like the one district in Texas. There are also states like Michigan that allow concealed permit holders to carry inside schools.
Basically we need people to be armed to address any threat until law enforcement can arrive. With the guns free school zone act and current state law, teachers, administrators, parents, CHP holders can not bring a firearm into schools.
The loophole exists that law enforcement personnel “while on the job” can carry inside schools and I believe I have seen your deputies carrying at high schools in the area.
My solution would bring responsibility/rationality back to the local government/sheriff by deputizing willing participants to carry at school. This could mean principals, office staff, teachers or even parents that are at the school often. I would prefer it would be extended to CHP holders but that may be too big a chunk to chew right now.
With a training program set up like the one you already have you could certify and deputize people such that while on school property (or field trips) they are allowed to carry. It could be renewed each school year or as often as needed. The goal would be to have at least one person (preferably more) at each school trained and armed each day school is in session.
You already have the authority and permission according to state and federal law to do this. You wouldn’t have to get or ask any agency or person for permission. It would be a bold decision and obviously political. It would take courage and endurance to take all the heat from the media and Federal government, BUT it would protect our children.
I haven’t heard of any school shootings in Michigan nor that Texas district. Israel has teachers armed since the 70’s and their terrorist attacks at school dropped off the map. The one school shooting I remember in Israel the terrorist was killed by a “student” after shooting 8 people. In America that body count would be very high. I hate the thought of the Sandy Hook principal being unarmed, charging the armed shooter.
So consider my proposal. I and many others would be willing to be deputized. I am at all my daughters basketball/football games (cheerleader) and am at the school often. I admit a school administrator would be a better candidate though since they are there each day but coaches or parents would be better for after school activities.
God bless and have a Merry CHRISTmas!
<my name here>
PS: We shook hands (again) at the Autozone protest last week.

ETA: Fricking editor takes out all the $%^&*( formatting!
 
Last edited:

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Back in the late 1980's when I went through the academy, we were told that in an emergency we could deputize anyone if that person's immediate assistance was critical to public safety. If it has changed, it has changed, but maybe User could clarify this?

Under the Common Law (and perhaps in the Code, but I'm too lazy to try to look it up) citizens have a duty to come to the aid of LEOs when the LEO requests such aid. My recollection of this is a LEO calling for assistance when they (the LEO) are getting the stuffing beat out of them by someone who does not want to become an arrestee. My further recollection is that if the LEO can ID those that refused to go to his aid they can be cited (it's a misdemeanor IIRC). Might this be what you are remembering?

stay safe.
 

45acpForMe

Newbie
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
Yorktown, Virginia, USA
I've been browsing the Connecticut Forum to see what those folks think about these issues. I must say that Virginians aren't the only ones with a strong view toward 2A rights.

Give this video a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZEQ2aQ5DGM

I think I saw Ted Koppel (Night Line) seated in the background.

Where is the barfing smiley!? I listened to about half of this video and had trouble holding my lunch down.

The liberals pushing more laws banning more guns and the superintendant saying our schools are safe......

The token 2a supporters never get enough traction to defend their positions.

I am amazed that such supposedly educated people, can't see that more liberty is a solution rather than more regulation and government control. The US senator was saying that he keeps hearing that "Everyone wants us to do something!". In this case anything they do will at best do nothing for the problem and at worst will create much worse problems.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Under the Common Law (and perhaps in the Code, but I'm too lazy to try to look it up) citizens have a duty to come to the aid of LEOs when the LEO requests such aid. My recollection of this is a LEO calling for assistance when they (the LEO) are getting the stuffing beat out of them by someone who does not want to become an arrestee. My further recollection is that if the LEO can ID those that refused to go to his aid they can be cited (it's a misdemeanor IIRC). Might this be what you are remembering?

stay safe.

I'm pretty sure you're right Skid. I think what ODA is talking about is Posse comitatus which is a temporary appointment under common law.
 

USNA69

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
375
Location
Norfolk, Virginia, USA
OK ... might be considered off-topic ...

... but I think it makes a point about school safety and gun bans:

You know what keeps me awake at night? I worry about what kind of background checks we do for the food service workers at our schools. There they are, all day long, among all that cutlery. What would be the result if one of them snapped, grabbed a butcher knife, and began slicing and dicing his way through the first grade classrooms. Just think of the blood and tiny severed fingers … it is too horrible to imagine.

Can’t happen, you say? It HAS happened:

****
March 2010 Main article: Nanping school massacre
On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping, Fujian province; The attack was widely reported in Chinese media sparking fears of copycat crimes. Following a quick trial, Zheng Minsheng was executed about one month later on April 28.

April 2010: Just a few hours after the execution of Zheng Minsheng in neighboring Fujian Province, in Leizhou, Guangdong another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher. Chen Kangbing had been a teacher at a different primary school in Leizhou; he was sentenced to death by a court in Zhanjiang in June.

On April 29 in Taixing, Jiangsu, 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten and stabbed 28 students, two teachers and one security guard; most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang, Shandong, then used gasoline to commit suicide by self-immolation.

May 2010: An attacker named Wu Huanming, 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010; early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks. The attacker later committed suicide at his house; he was the landlord of the school, Shengshui Temple private kindergarten, and had been involved in an ongoing dispute with the school administrator about when the school would move out of the building.

On May 18, 2010 at Hainan Institute of Science and Technology, a vocational college in Haikou, Hainan, more than 10 men charged into a dormitory wielding knives around 2:30 am; after attacking the security guard and disabling security cameras, 9 students were injured, 1 seriously. The local men attacked the dorm in an act of revenge and retaliation against college students following conflict the previous day at an off-campus food stall in which 4 students were injured, for a total of 13.

August 2010: On 4 August 2010, 26-year-old Fang Jiantang slashed more than 20 children and staff with a 60 cm knife, killing 3 children and 1 teacher, at a kindergarten in Zibo, Shandong province. Of the injured, 3 other children and 4 teachers were taken to the hospital. After being caught Fang confessed to the crime; his motive is not yet known.

August 2011: Eight children, all aged four or five, were hurt in Minhang District, Shanghai when an employee at a child-care centre for migrant workers slashed them with a box-cutter.

September 2011: In September 2011, a young girl and three adults taking their children to nursery school were killed in Gongyi, Henan by 30-year-old Wang Hongbin with an axe. Another child and an adult were seriously wounded but survived. The suspect is a local farmer who is suspected of being mentally ill.

December 2012: On 14 December 2012, a 36 year-old villager in the village of Chenpeng, Henan Province, stabbed 23 children and an elderly woman at the village's primary school as children were arriving for classes. The attacker was restrained at the school, and later arrested. All of the victims survived and were treated at three hospitals, though some were reportedly seriously injured, with fingers or ears cut off, and had to be transferred to larger hospitals for specialized care.

On the same day as the Newtown shooting, a crazed man broke into a school building in central China, stabbing and slashing 23 pupils. State media barely reported on the attack.
****
Incidentally, private ownership of guns is forbidden in China … little comfort to the many dead and maimed children listed above.

How long must we wait, and how many innocent lives must be lost, before Congress enacts anti-assault knife legislation?
 

45acpForMe

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Nov 21, 2008
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Yorktown, Virginia, USA
... <snip> How long must we wait, and how many innocent lives must be lost, before Congress enacts anti-assault knife legislation?

I wouldn't be surprised if they picked up knife discussions right after the AWB went back into affect. :-(

VA already has some stupid laws regarding knives and I wish all of them could be repealed. Worse is that they have enough vague language in them to cause many to not carry knives for fear of breaking the law.
 

roscoe13

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,134
Location
Catlett, Virginia, USA
You keep saying this, but the only thing I can find in the Code of Virginia is:

§ [emphasis added]

Show me where a Sheriff can deputize someone to enforce the criminal code and I might become interested long enough to ask how you and any sheriff doing so plan to get around all the liability issues.

Show me where someone can OC, or wear a red shirt on Thursdays. Why should the laws apply differently to sheriffs than the rest of us...

Roscoe
 

carolina guy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
1,737
Location
Concord, NC
That's the only way to protect them from all the lies they'll learn in public school too. I don't have any school-aged kids, but if I did, I'd never let them near a public school, and wouldn't have before Sandy Hook either.

Roscoe

Our feeling exactly...already home schooling the oldest 2 and the younger ones will follow when ready.
 

paramedic70002

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
1,440
Location
Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
Show me where someone can OC, or wear a red shirt on Thursdays. Why should the laws apply differently to sheriffs than the rest of us...

Roscoe

A valid point. Certainly somewhere though is some common law, precedence, established procedure, something that addresses this issue. We are long past the time when the state has covered it's keister liability-wise when it comes to giving people badges which convey police powers. The Sheriff is a Constitutional Officer with widely independent powers yet he still must work within the framework of the DCJS and applicable law, and while he gets his power from the people, he gets his money and many operational standards from the state. I remember not too many years ago, a couple of local Sheriffs wanted to change the color scheme of their uniforms and cruisers. You might think that this would be an internal matter, but the state stopped them cold.

Any LEOs or other informed folks that can address this issue with citations?
 

paramedic70002

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Jun 14, 2006
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1,440
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Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
This seems to allow appointed but uncertified Deputies:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-1603

§ 15.2-1603. Appointment of deputies; their powers; how removed.

The treasurer, the sheriff, the commissioner of the revenue, and the clerk of any circuit court may at the time he qualifies as provided in § 15.2-1522 or thereafter appoint one or more deputies, who may discharge any of the official duties of their principal during his continuance in office, unless it is some duty the performance of which by a deputy is expressly forbidden by law. The sheriff making an appointment of a deputy under the provisions of this section may review the record of the deputy as furnished by the Federal Bureau of Investigation prior to certification to the appropriate court as provided hereunder.

The sheriff may appoint as deputies medical and rehabilitation employees as are authorized by the State Compensation Board. Deputies appointed pursuant to this paragraph shall not be considered by the State Compensation Board in fixing the number of full-time or part-time deputies which may be appointed by the sheriff pursuant to § 15.2-1609.1.

The officer making any such appointment shall certify the appointment to the court in the clerk's office of which the oath of the principal of such deputy is filed, and a record thereof shall be entered in the order book of such court. Any such deputy at the time his principal qualifies as provided in § 15.2-1522 or thereafter, and before entering upon the duties of his office, shall take and prescribe the oath now provided for in § 49-1. The oath shall be filed with the clerk of the court in whose office the oath of his principal is filed, and such clerk shall properly label and file all such oaths in his office for preservation. Any such deputy may be removed from office by his principal. The deputy may also be removed by the court as provided by § 24.2-230.
(Code 1950, § 15-485; 1952, c. 112; 1962, c. 623, § 15.1-48; 1971, Ex. Sess., c. 155; 1972, c. 549; 1976, c. 199; 1979, c. 660; 1997, c. 587.)
 

paramedic70002

Regular Member
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Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-1612.1

§ 15.2-1612.1. Deputy sheriffs to complete course of instruction established by Department of Criminal Justice Services.
Any full-time deputy sheriff not employed on July 1, 1971, shall successfully complete a course of instruction established by the Department of Criminal Justice Services as provided in clause (i) of subdivision 2 of § 9.1-102.
(1972, c. 716, § 14.1-73.2; 1973, c. 216; 1974, c. 571; 1975, c. 387; 1976, c. 705; 1979, c. 419; 1980, c. 587; 1984, c. 779; 1998, c. 872.)
 
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