Open Carry Bill Killed

nigmalg said:

This gives us time to slam Dean's office.

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I'm all for this, but I strongly doubt it will have any affect on someone with such blatant disregard for We the People.

I'm gonna do it anyway tho. But I need to take a day or two to calm down. I have rarely been this pissed off in my life.

ixtow said:

I'm all for this, but I strongly doubt it will have any affect on someone with such blatant disregard for We the People.

I'm gonna do it anyway tho. But I need to take a day or two to calm down. I have rarely been this pissed off in my life.

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I've never been this pissed off at a political event either. I shouldn't be shocked but I am. I usually take tyranny in stride, with humor actually. Not this time. I guess it's because I got my hopes up. It's also because those fat slob LEO's in the audience got their way. We pay their freakin salary and they want me disarmed. LIVID am I.

Is it any surprise that Charlie Dean's Offices are in the heart of the most corrupt part of Florida?

Inverness, Citrus County, FL. Home of Sheriff Dawsey's Meth Kingdom. Where your kid gets raped for days and killed if you don't go along with the program. Where Cops commit drive-bys on anyone they just don't like that day. The County I had to leave just to stay alive, hunted every day.

Keep SB 234 Moving & Push to Undo the Dean Amendments

As I posted on a separate thread a few hours ago, the thing to do now is to keep pushing for SB 234 in its original version WITH Amendment 180224 (the good amendment that was offered earlier--this amendment is important ) and WITHOUT the package of bad amendments adopted yesterday.

It is critical that we not kill this bill at this point. Once the bill is officially out of committee, it will be beyond Senator Dean's individual control and can be amended both on the floor in the Senate as well as in committee and on the floor in the House. Killing the bill now only strengthens Senator Dean's hand because all other potential legislative vehicles for OC and campus carry would have to go through the exact same committee process as SB 234.

For these reasons, I reiterate that it is critical that everyone who supports OC in Florida needs to keep SB 234 moving and work through the legislative process to undo the bad amendments. There are many different stages in the process where it can be amended, both in committee and on the floor, in both the Senate and House, before it goes to the Governor.

WVCDL said:

As I posted on a separate thread a few hours ago, the thing to do now is to keep pushing for SB 234 in its original version WITH Amendment 180224 (the good amendment that was offered earlier--this amendment is important ) and WITHOUT the package of bad amendments adopted yesterday.

It is critical that we not kill this bill at this point. Once the bill is officially out of committee, it will be beyond Senator Dean's individual control and can be amended both on the floor in the Senate as well as in committee and on the floor in the House. Killing the bill now only strengthens Senator Dean's hand because all other potential legislative vehicles for OC and campus carry would have to go through the exact same committee process as SB 234.

For these reasons, I reiterate that it is critical that everyone who supports OC in Florida needs to keep SB 234 moving and work through the legislative process to undo the bad amendments. There are many different stages in the process where it can be amended, both in committee and on the floor, in both the Senate and House, before it goes to the Governor.

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I take your point sir, but disagree. It's downhill from here, if that. Next we'll all need GPS tracking and locks on our guns that only the cops have keys to.

You don't know Dean and how well connected he is. Many people who think they know better write me off as a nut, but he and his henchmen in Citrus have tried to kill me several times for speaking out against them on other issues. Threatened my family on many occasions when they couldn't get to me anymore.

These people have no limits and they ALWAYS get away with it.

(a) Carrying openly requires that the firearm be secured by the carrier in a Level 2 security holster.

I don't have too much of a problem with this, though in keeping with the "letter of the law" it should read Level 2 or higher as some would prefer III or IV to II
I realize the more libertarian among us would rather see free choice reign here (as well it should) and IMO it should just read "must be holstered" but I can deal with it.

(b) Carrying openly requires that the carrier display his or her license to carry a concealed firearm in a clear sleeve on or near the holster in such a manner as to be visible.

This is the ridiculous part, I'm supposed to display my name and address for the world to see but meanwhile I shred mail with my name and address on it....really? This is stupid and you know why it's there, so a cop can see at a glance if he has to bother or not. What did they do before 87'? IDK but displaying your name and address for everyone to see would probably make you NOT want to OC which defeats the purpose of the bill.
I'd rather see the bill fail because of this.

(c) Carrying openly requires the carrier to have demonstrated competence with a firearm and firearm retention as provided in paragraph (2)(h).

We already had to do that for our CC permits, would we have to take another course of some sort...I'm not clear on this. Competence with firearm retention? What? It's a holster, if you can't take a gun out of a holster and put it back in...

If I'm reading the amendment right, the failure of any of these on your part nets you an obligatory $25 fine.
Ah yes, aren't you glad the RIGHT to keep and bear arms...is a RIGHT and not a privilege?

FzSBLACKMAGICK said:

(a) Carrying openly requires that the firearm be secured by the carrier in a Level 2 security holster.

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Unconstitutionally vague.

WVCDL said:

As I posted on a separate thread a few hours ago, the thing to do now is to keep pushing for SB 234 in its original version WITH Amendment 180224 (the good amendment that was offered earlier--this amendment is important ) and WITHOUT the package of bad amendments adopted yesterday.

It is critical that we not kill this bill at this point. Once the bill is officially out of committee, it will be beyond Senator Dean's individual control and can be amended both on the floor in the Senate as well as in committee and on the floor in the House. Killing the bill now only strengthens Senator Dean's hand because all other potential legislative vehicles for OC and campus carry would have to go through the exact same committee process as SB 234.

For these reasons, I reiterate that it is critical that everyone who supports OC in Florida needs to keep SB 234 moving and work through the legislative process to undo the bad amendments. There are many different stages in the process where it can be amended, both in committee and on the floor, in both the Senate and House, before it goes to the Governor.

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agreed.

WVCDL said:

As I posted on a separate thread a few hours ago, the thing to do now is to keep pushing for SB 234 in its original version WITH Amendment 180224 (the good amendment that was offered earlier--this amendment is important ) and WITHOUT the package of bad amendments adopted yesterday.

It is critical that we not kill this bill at this point. Once the bill is officially out of committee, it will be beyond Senator Dean's individual control and can be amended both on the floor in the Senate as well as in committee and on the floor in the House. Killing the bill now only strengthens Senator Dean's hand because all other potential legislative vehicles for OC and campus carry would have to go through the exact same committee process as SB 234.

For these reasons, I reiterate that it is critical that everyone who supports OC in Florida needs to keep SB 234 moving and work through the legislative process to undo the bad amendments. There are many different stages in the process where it can be amended, both in committee and on the floor, in both the Senate and House, before it goes to the Governor.

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True. I keep forgetting that Senator Dockery lied for Senator Dean. She didn't withdraw campus carry because of the anti's testimony, she did it because of that rat Dean!!! People in the House are very enthusiastic about campus carry too.

TX WILL get campus carry this year and probably open carry. We had shall issue CCW like a decade before TX and they're going to be this far ahead of us? Don't think so. I will freakin drive to Tallahassee at $4/gallon if it will make a difference.

These requirements are outrageous!

Wearing your open carry badge! Displaying your personal info on your license like some sort of open carry badge is a violation of your privacy! This requirement and will lead to people thinking that an open carrier is some sort of official.

Retention training requirements for civilians! Police regularly get in scuffles with criminals that they are trying to take to jail, they need enhanced retention training, not average citizens!

Having only one type of approved holster! Just taking off your jacket would make you a criminal unless you were using a holster that is not made for concealment. There is also no statutory definition of a level 2 holster.

Sign up for email alerts here: http://www.floridacarry.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=28

We will be putting out instructions for a coordinated response to this shortly.

WVCDL said:

As I posted on a separate thread a few hours ago, the thing to do now is to keep pushing for SB 234 in its original version WITH Amendment 180224 (the good amendment that was offered earlier--this amendment is important ) and WITHOUT the package of bad amendments adopted yesterday.

It is critical that we not kill this bill at this point. Once the bill is officially out of committee, it will be beyond Senator Dean's individual control and can be amended both on the floor in the Senate as well as in committee and on the floor in the House. Killing the bill now only strengthens Senator Dean's hand because all other potential legislative vehicles for OC and campus carry would have to go through the exact same committee process as SB 234.

For these reasons, I reiterate that it is critical that everyone who supports OC in Florida needs to keep SB 234 moving and work through the legislative process to undo the bad amendments. There are many different stages in the process where it can be amended, both in committee and on the floor, in both the Senate and House, before it goes to the Governor.

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I agree, keep it moving forward.

FzSBLACKMAGICK said:

(b) Carrying openly requires that the carrier display his or her license to carry a concealed firearm in a clear sleeve on or near the holster in such a manner as to be visible.

This is the ridiculous part, I'm supposed to display my name and address for the world to see but meanwhile I shred mail with my name and address on it....really? This is stupid and you know why it's there, so a cop can see at a glance if he has to bother or not. What did they do before 87'? IDK but displaying your name and address for everyone to see would probably make you NOT want to OC which defeats the purpose of the bill.
I'd rather see the bill fail because of this.

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I'm looking at my permit (I have family in Fla. so have an non-res permit.) and I gotta say it's hard to read any info on it from more than a couple of feet away. If this thing was hanging on my belt I suppose someone could get the info if they stooped down to read it, but if someone did that I'd just step away. Yeah, it might be a PITA to carry it that way but I'm just not real worried someone will get much info off of it without effort. Does a Fla. resident permit have larger print or something? My Louisiana permit does and would be readable.

(c) Carrying openly requires the carrier to have 49 demonstrated competence with a firearm and firearm retention as 50 provided in paragraph (2)(h).

We already had to do that for our CC permits, would we have to take another course of some sort...I'm not clear on this. Competence with firearm retention? What? It's a holster, if you can't take a gun out of a holster and put it back in...

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LOL yeah I wondered about that one myself.

WVCDL said:

As I posted on a separate thread a few hours ago, the thing to do now is to keep pushing for SB 234 in its original version WITH Amendment 180224 (the good amendment that was offered earlier--this amendment is important ) and WITHOUT the package of bad amendments adopted yesterday.

It is critical that we not kill this bill at this point. Once the bill is officially out of committee, it will be beyond Senator Dean's individual control and can be amended both on the floor in the Senate as well as in committee and on the floor in the House. Killing the bill now only strengthens Senator Dean's hand because all other potential legislative vehicles for OC and campus carry would have to go through the exact same committee process as SB 234.

For these reasons, I reiterate that it is critical that everyone who supports OC in Florida needs to keep SB 234 moving and work through the legislative process to undo the bad amendments. There are many different stages in the process where it can be amended, both in committee and on the floor, in both the Senate and House, before it goes to the Governor.

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I also agree with this. Ya its not exactly what we wanted but instead of killing it and filing again will give the following sentiment on the next time we file "Oh god here are those gun nuts filinf for open carry...again." Killing it now will give the impression that the bill did not pass, making our next effort that much more futile.

We do however need to advocate for the original bill, thats where the money is.

From what I understand theres going to be an organized response effort happening soon, just stand by for it.

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying for us to just take it as is, but we def. need to be smart about this.

Rod

Rod0990 said:

I also agree with this. Ya its not exactly what we wanted but instead of killing it and filing again will give the following sentiment on the next time we file "Oh god here are those gun nuts filinf for open carry...again." Killing it now will give the impression that the bill did not pass, making our next effort that much more futile.

We do however need to advocate for the original bill, thats where the money is.

From what I understand theres going to be an organized response effort happening soon, just stand by for it.

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying for us to just take it as is, but we def. need to be smart about this.

Rod

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Let's do it. I wonder what Evers wants done too. Senator Dockery looked very calm and content that bill was nuked. I may be wrong but Evers looked pissed/disgusted.

77zach said:

Let's do it. I wonder what Evers wants done too. Senator Dockery looked very calm and content that bill was nuked. I may be wrong but Evers looked pissed/disgusted.

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I agree, Ill post this again since I already posted it on another thread.

We cant panic and kill the bill, I think thats exactly what they expect when they made these changes. "Lets add these heated changes and theyll kill the bill for sure...problem solved." Dont feed into this mentality.

Rod

StogieC said:

These requirements are outrageous!

We will be putting out instructions for a coordinated response to this shortly.

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Hope we can coordinate something. Thats the way to go.

turbodog said:

I'm looking at my permit (I have family in Fla. so have an non-res permit.) and I gotta say it's hard to read any info on it from more than a couple of feet away. If this thing was hanging on my belt I suppose someone could get the info if they stooped down to read it, but if someone did that I'd just step away. Yeah, it might be a PITA to carry it that way but I'm just not real worried someone will get much info off of it without effort. Does a Fla. resident permit have larger print or something? My Louisiana permit does and would be readable.

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Hell, without my glasses it's hard to read in my hand but there was a time a few short years ago I could read that from several feet away easily. The picture they put on there is enough to make you not want to show it. Somehow the state, despite how good you look in the pic you sent them is able to make you look like you're the head of a mafia family or were just arrested for DWI after spending all night partying.
Before we had to worry if we had an accidental showing of our weapon, with this amendment you would have to worry your "badge" is covered!

This amendment seems an attempt to quell kneejerk fears of those unfamiliar with the issue that you first mention OC to...

What if someone wants to grab your weapon??!!
You have a level II holster.

How do I know you're not a crazed, deranged looney walkin' around with a gun?
State issued "license" for a "right" in plain view, complete with name and addy. (Should we be thankful they don't require illumination like a license plate?)

Level II holster? Sounds high tech, how do I know they know how to use such an advanced piece of equipment?
Required training...lol...course.

FzSBLACKMAGICK said:

Hell, without my glasses it's hard to read in my hand but there was a time a few short years ago I could read that from several feet away easily. The picture they put on there is enough to make you not want to show it. Somehow the state, despite how good you look in the pic you sent them is able to make you look like you're the head of a mafia family or were just arrested for DWI after spending all night partying.
Before we had to worry if we had an accidental showing of our weapon, with this amendment you would have to worry your "badge" is covered!

This amendment seems an attempt to quell kneejerk fears of those unfamiliar with the issue that you first mention OC to...

What if someone wants to grab your weapon??!!
You have a level II holster.

How do I know you're not a crazed, deranged looney walkin' around with a gun?
State issued "license" for a "right" in plain view, complete with name and addy. (Should we be thankful they don't require illumination like a license plate?)

Level II holster? Sounds high tech, how do I know they know how to use such an advanced piece of equipment?
Required training...lol...course.

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There is no standard definition of a level 2 holster anyway, that I know of. It doesn't really matter to me because that right there kills OC for me. When I've OC'd in the past I use the biachi carry lok, or the paddle lok, which are level 1 holsters. No other state requires the absurdities in the amendment.

Am I losing it? Yesterday I read what you are all talking about and today I'm reading a sensible version. Did someone submit and amendment to fix the crazy provisions?

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dbbrooks said:

Am I losing it? Yesterday I read what you are all talking about and today I'm reading a sensible version. Did someone submit and amendment to fix the crazy provisions?

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

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If you look at the original or got to the House website then everything is fine. It's the Dean/Dockery amendments in the senate that nuked it. The bad amendments can be taken out later though. Also, if my reading of the legislative process is correct we could pass it as is in the house. It would depend on the conference committee after that. It should pass House CJ without any bad amendments.