• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

This is why I have no respect for the courts anymore.

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Well, not knowing any of the details leading to this letter, I'm not yet against them on this.

Until a particular court or official has been shown to be otherwise, they WORK for us and I don't appreciate someone who owes a legitimate debt to them going out of their way to be trying to waste their time on purpose.

If you legitimately only have $235 (or whatever it was) only available to you in unrolled pennies, that's one thing. But I suspect that is not the case here.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Well, not knowing any of the details leading to this letter, I'm not yet against them on this.

Until a particular court or official has been shown to be otherwise, they WORK for us and I don't appreciate someone who owes a legitimate debt to them going out of their way to be trying to waste their time on purpose.

If you legitimately only have $235 (or whatever it was) only available to you in unrolled pennies, that's one thing. But I suspect that is not the case here.

The Youtube video was linked to. It was not pennies. EVEN IF IT WAS pennies then they have to accept them. You don't know the history of the ticket/fine/etc.

The judge has stated that she does not know what Federal Reserve Notes are and that banks get to determine what money is.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
The Youtube video was linked to. It was not pennies. EVEN IF IT WAS pennies then they have to accept them. You don't know the history of the ticket/fine/etc.

The judge has stated that she does not know what Federal Reserve Notes are and that banks get to determine what money is.

I don't know the history because it wasn't on the letter or summarized, hence my admission that I did not know the history. You posted this for opinions (I assume) so that was mine. I need more reason to click a video when the usual purpose of doing so is to overdramatize and overnarrate without just giving me the facts to consider for myself.

Most people don't know what FRNs are. The judge didn't say they won't take them, just that they'd take them to the bank. I assume the bank would take them, so even without knowing what they are, she'll accept them. Most stores accept them everyday, but if you asked them, they'd probably say they don't because they won't know what you are talking about. So, that part just seems like making fun of people who have been bred to be ignorant of our money system through no real fault of their own.

Instead of focusing on my wrong example of pennies, how about the actual point I made? Is someone wanting to go out of their way and purposely trying to waste the time of the taxpayer's court? I have a problem with that. In fact, I'd call it contempt of court. Some courts deserve contempt. But you have to sell me on that before you sell me on someone's resolution of it.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
I don't know the history because it wasn't on the letter or summarized, hence my admission that I did not know the history. You posted this for opinions (I assume) so that was mine. I need more reason to click a video when the usual purpose of doing so is to overdramatize and overnarrate without just giving me the facts to consider for myself.

Most people don't know what FRNs are. The judge didn't say they won't take them, just that they'd take them to the bank. I assume the bank would take them, so even without knowing what they are, she'll accept them. Most stores accept them everyday, but if you asked them, they'd probably say they don't because they won't know what you are talking about. So, that part just seems like making fun of people who have been bred to be ignorant of our money system through no real fault of their own.

Instead of focusing on my wrong example of pennies, how about the actual point I made? Is someone wanting to go out of their way and purposely trying to waste the time of the taxpayer's court? I have a problem with that. In fact, I'd call it contempt of court. Some courts deserve contempt. But you have to sell me on that before you sell me on someone's resolution of it.

I had a speeding ticket, I went to pay the fine on the last day legally. I got to the court and the court said it was closed on a non-holiday (Wednesday). I had check the website for the court to get the hours and address. I then sent a letter certified mail stating that I was at this court on this day and time with full payment. The court made the choice to be closed and since it was not a holiday I would consider the fine paid in full unless I heard back from the court via certified mail within 30 days.

That was in November ? 2007 I did not hear back from them until April or later 2008 stating that it had doubled and then some for being late. I never got any letter from them before then much less via certified mail.

I called and asked if they would accept FRNs they would not say yes. I then went to pay the fine using one 'dollar' coins. That is where the Youtube video comes in. That is the courts second refusal of payment.

BTW it's your RIGHT to protest BS fines and such by making such payments in any form of legal US currency.

The traffic courts, IMO, are a blight on our society.
 
Last edited:

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
...BTW it's your RIGHT to protest BS fines and such by making such payments in any form of legal US currency.

The traffic courts, IMO, are a blight on our society.

Thank you for the summary. That was done very well. And here I was thinking you'd just found something to discuss, not thinking it actually involved you personally, too. Because I could swear this was discussed last year.

I agree that the traffic laws and the courts are often wrong, and often (probably purposely) set up to convenience themselves at our expense (like odd hours of service).

And while I absolutely agree you have the right to the protest, I guess I just won't be on that picket line with you. I get my share of speeding tickets. I pay them.

But I do feel your pain, even if I picked a different battle to fight.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Thank you for the summary. That was done very well. And here I was thinking you'd just found something to discuss, not thinking it actually involved you personally, too. Because I could swear this was discussed last year.

I agree that the traffic laws and the courts are often wrong, and often (probably purposely) set up to convenience themselves at our expense (like odd hours of service).

And while I absolutely agree you have the right to the protest, I guess I just won't be on that picket line with you. I get my share of speeding tickets. I pay them.

But I do feel your pain, even if I picked a different battle to fight.


Not everyone can fight (in) every battle or on the same fronts. The end goal is liberty.

I had been looking for that letter, I could not remember where I had stored it until today.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
I ended up having to pay, due to a corrupt judge, in loose 1 dollar FRNs and misc coins that were all short of full rolls.


From his youtube comments ....

Paying with $1 coins.
 

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
I had a speeding ticket, I went to pay the fine on the last day legally. I got to the court and the court said it was closed on a non-holiday (Wednesday). I had check the website for the court to get the hours and address. I then sent a letter certified mail stating that I was at this court on this day and time with full payment. The court made the choice to be closed and since it was not a holiday I would consider the fine paid in full unless I heard back from the court via certified mail within 30 days.

That was in November ? 2007 I did not hear back from them until April or later 2008 stating that it had doubled and then some for being late. I never got any letter from them before then much less via certified mail.

I called and asked if they would accept FRNs they would not say yes. I then went to pay the fine using one 'dollar' coins. That is where the Youtube video comes in. That is the courts second refusal of payment.

BTW it's your RIGHT to protest BS fines and such by making such payments in any form of legal US currency.

The traffic courts, IMO, are a blight on our society.

I agree with your point about traffic court. That being said, why are quizing the court about frns?
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Is there actually any RCW or provision of the Uniform Commercial Code requiring a court to take any cash or coin payment?

§5103. Legal tender

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.


That took 5 seconds or so using a search engine and then another 30 to pull it up on the government info site.
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
§5103. Legal tender

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.


That took 5 seconds or so using a search engine and then another 30 to pull it up on the government info site.

but what is WASHINGTON LAW regarding the duty of courts to accept US Currency? just because it is tender does not require anyone to accept it. if you incurr a debt to me, and I say I will only accept payment in $10 dollar bills I have the right not to accept 20s.

which law or policy of Washington courts deals with what tender they may except.
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
OK ... duly noted.

FYI .. tax collectors will not take coins either to pay your taxes .... not like 3-5K ... I know ...

just get a T-shirt write your name, bank, routing number, signature, and "pay to the order of Internal Revnue Service on it... (the shirt off your back) on it.... according to the Uniform Commercial Code this would constitute a "draft" a form of negotiable instrument valid for payment.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
but what is WASHINGTON LAW regarding the duty of courts to accept US Currency? just because it is tender does not require anyone to accept it. if you incurr a debt to me, and I say I will only accept payment in $10 dollar bills I have the right not to accept 20s.

which law or policy of Washington courts deals with what tender they may except.

A PRIVATE contract may be exchanged in any medium all parties agree to.

The calling in of a non-contractual debt cannot have such restrictions.

Otherwise a court could demand payment in 1000 dollar FRNs if you have a fine of more than 1000 FRNs.

Yes there are such notes, no they are not common, yes they are still legal tender.
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
A PRIVATE contract may be exchanged in any medium all parties agree to.

The calling in of a non-contractual debt cannot have such restrictions.

Otherwise a court could demand payment in 1000 dollar FRNs if you have a fine of more than 1000 FRNs.

Yes there are such notes, no they are not common, yes they are still legal tender.

Again, cite.

1000 dollar FRNs (or all FRNs over 100 dollars for that matter) were never circulated to the general public. They were used between the government and large banks or corporations. So it would not be reasonable to require payment of non circulating currency. On the other hand requiring you not take up their manpower by paying in a jar of coins is.....
 
Last edited:

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington

I cited the federal law.

If you want to know more look up the UCC.

I can't help your statist views. You'll always believe that the state is right, I can't help that.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/3/3-603

MOOORRRREEE


Legal Tender Status

I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy
.
 
Last edited:

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
I cited the federal law.

If you want to know more look up the UCC.

I can't help your statist views. You'll always believe that the state is right, I can't help that.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/3/3-603

Your federal law does not require a state to accept tender only that currency is tender. Read the language of the law, it places no responsibility on the part of a state court to accept. Please cite the law requiring courts of the State of Washington to accept a jar of coins
 
Top