Such as in Wentzville, MO
Careful in Wentzville, the popo not particularly friendly.
The ID issue gets a lot of debate and false information twisted into the middle.
RAS is not too hard for an officer to develop and you are not always aware of the totality of the situation.
IF you have said more to them than "I do not talk to police, am I free to go" you may have given them RAS at which time ID rules change.
Be careful, in 11 more days if Jay does nothing, those kinds of laws become less of a concern.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicionWhat is ras
What is ras
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio
Search and read the opinion.
You have much to learn grasshopper.
You can file a case in federal court before you get arrested if you want to attack the permit demand statue. In fed court, any constitutional argument can be made before you are arrested.
You can get into real trouble for attacking statues...
HI, can anyone tell me if i need to show ID if i am asked by a police officer in a municipality that requires CCW for OC?
MO REV STAT 571.121. 1. Any person issued a concealed carry permit pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall carry the concealed carry permit at all times the person is carrying a concealed firearm and shall display the concealed carry permit upon the request of any peace officer. Failure to comply with this subsection shall not be a criminal offense but the concealed carry permit holder may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed thirty-five dollars.
Common sense would dictate the OC in a municipality that has a ordinance against OC, UNLESS with a CCW.... An upon approached by a LEO WHILE OC, in that municipality,you are in violation of the law, UNLESS you have a CCW. I guess if you decided NOT to produce your CCW permit, you could be fined by the state for up to 35.00, then ticketed for possible disorderly conduct in that municipality, and fined there also.... MAYBE.... IANL..
In a muni with OC with CCW it does not make RAS to OC. Despite the reality of what some often do, the officer is tasked with you being innocent unless otherwise lead to a path of guilt.
This by no means indicates it will not happen, but once it does and if you choose to go down the no ID path, just understand you are going to have to prove that he did not have RAS for the stop and yes, you might have to prove it against totally made up fabrications the officer will come up with to try and prevent civil liabilities etc.
The act of OC nor the act of refusing to ID when not required make the trip for RAS but and it is a big but, it is the "totality of the circumstances" and you do not know what the officer knows that could give him RAS. The more you talk, the more likely you will make the RAS trip, sticking with "not answering any questions and don't consent to any searches or seizures" as your only answers is your best bet to avoide RAS and further investigation/hassle.
I live on Colorado's Western Slope and have been thanked by LEO for OCing so my prospects for such an encounter are slim but IF it happens I will go with "Am I being detained; Am I free to go" before the search/question refusal.
OK; it is illegal to drive a car without a license. Is it a criminal offense, civil offence or traffic violation? Can police stop cars just to check for drivers licences???
SCOTUS has already ruled the answer is NO absent other RAS than the person is driving. It's late and I don't have the cite in front of me.
The rub is that "shall not apply" may or may not be ruled as the same as "is a defense against" the crime of OCing.SECTION 210.250: WEAPONS -- CARRYING CONCEALED -- OTHER UNLAWFUL USE
A. A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons if he/she knowingly:
6. Openly carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use;
D. Subparagraphs (1), (6) and (7) of Subsection (A) of this Section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to Sections 571.101 to 571.121, RSMo., or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another State or political subdivision of another State.
Now that a non-DL ID is no longer issued as a endorsement this RSMo needs to be fixed.Duty to carry and display permit, penalty for violation--director of revenue immunity from liability, when.
571.121. 1. Any person issued a concealed carry permit pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, or a concealed carry endorsement issued prior to August 28, 2013, shall carry the concealed carry permit or endorsement at all times the person is carrying a concealed firearm and shall display the concealed carry permit and a state or federal government-issued photo identification [strike]or the endorsement or permit[/strike] upon the request of any peace officer.
HI, can anyone tell me if i need to show ID if i am asked by a police officer in a municipality that requires CCW for OC?
OK; it is illegal to drive a car without a license. Can police stop cars just to check for drivers licences???
SCOTUS has already ruled the answer is NO absent other RAS than the person is driving. It's late and I don't have the cite in front of me.
All a cop needs to do is let a prosecutor and/or judge sort it out.You could Not be more wrong!
If the Stazi say... Papers Please.....................
YOU can bend over,,,,, but
Missouri............... the show me state............ citizens are NOT required to "show their papers" on the whim of the cops...
The cops need to "show me" their Reasonable Articulable Suspicion of a CRIME!!!