Campus, OC, LEO encounter

F350 · Mar 30, 2012

Our disabled friend has a Dr appointment this afternoon and since it is easier to get her in and out of the car rather than my 1 ton, 4X4 dully I took the wife to work (she's an academic librarian) so I could keep the car. As I pull into the parking lot next to the library she says "As long as you're here could you come in and help me shift my desk and credenza around".

Well I wasn't expecting to get out so I am wearing tan desert combat boots, khaki 5-11 cargo pants, pale blue 5-11 polo shirt and my black "Gunny Glock" hat (The Gunny in Marine Class A greens and "Smokey" hat and GLOCK in a silver strip on the left side) and I'm carrying the Para P-14, not a small pistol, in a black 3 slot pancake holster so the butt is ~ 45* forward with matching double mag pouch on the left, rather hard to miss.

As we approach the library a city cop (campus does not have it's own LEOs, 3 city LEO assigned to the campus full time) emerges from the breeze way under the second floor from not quite 90* to my right, crosses in front of us and heads our way. I see him give me the once over, no way he missed seeing my piece, it stands out black against the light colored clothing. As he gets even with us he says......... are you ready for this......... "Nice hat".

I think I'm getting to really like Colorado!

Deserteagle8338 · Mar 30, 2012

F350 said:
Our disabled friend has a Dr appointment this afternoon and since it is easier to get her in and out of the car rather than my 1 ton, 4X4 dully I took the wife to work (she's an academic librarian) so I could keep the car. As I pull into the parking lot next to the library she says "As long as you're here could you come in and help me shift my desk and credenza around".

Well I wasn't expecting to get out so I am wearing tan desert combat boots, khaki 5-11 cargo pants, pale blue 5-11 polo shirt and my black "Gunny Glock" hat (The Gunny in Marine Class A greens and "Smokey" hat and GLOCK in a silver strip on the left side) and I'm carrying the Para P-14, not a small pistol, in a black 3 slot pancake holster so the butt is ~ 45* forward with matching double mag pouch on the left, rather hard to miss.

As we approach the library a city cop (campus does not have it's own LEOs, 3 city LEO assigned to the campus full time) emerges from the breeze way under the second floor from not quite 90* to my right, crosses in front of us and heads our way. I see him give me the once over, no way he missed seeing my piece, it stands out black against the light colored clothing. As he gets even with us he says......... are you ready for this......... "Nice hat".

I think I'm getting to really like Colorado!

Wow! What campus was this?

MainelyGlock · Mar 30, 2012

haha, that's awesome. I was totally expecting another LEO confrontation problem story.

F350 · Mar 30, 2012

Deserteagle8338 said:
Wow! What campus was this?

Colorado Mesa in Grand Junction.

Earlier, shortly after she got there, she was having a meeting with the university administrator over security and in the course of their meeting he mentioned "There are 26 faculty and staff we know of that have their CCWs" she looked him in the eye and said "27". She said he didn't even bat an eye. Seems to be a pretty accepting environment here.

Grapeshot · Mar 30, 2012

F350 said:
Colorado Mesa in Grand Junction.

Earlier, shortly after she got there, she was having a meeting with the university administrator over security and in the course of their meeting he mentioned "There are 26 faculty and staff we know of that have their CCWs" she looked him in the eye and said "27". She said he didn't even bat an eye. Seems to be a pretty accepting environment here.

Outstanding - the best repondent reply of the day!

Now to the real question - can she and other "faculty and staff" legally carry within the buildings and classrooms? Is there an official policy of the school or are they operating under a "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy?

ZackL · Mar 30, 2012

Stories like this always give me a great feeling. Congrats on having no issues and welcome to Colorado. On another note, I am really glad to hear that Grand Junction police are good about OC. We don't have too many members out that way, but it is good that the police still respect Open Carriers in their area.

SigGuy23 · Mar 30, 2012

Grapeshot said:
Outstanding - the best repondent reply of the day!

Now to the real question - can she and other "faculty and staff" legally carry within the buildings and classrooms? Is there an official policy of the school or are they operating under a "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy?

As far as I remember. Colorado just recently did what Utah did and made it illegal for universities to ban carry by students and teachers that are allowed to by law. Some one from there can c;arify it more for you.

jhco50 · Mar 31, 2012

SigGuy23 said:
As far as I remember. Colorado just recently did what Utah did and made it illegal for universities to ban carry by students and teachers that are allowed to by law. Some one from there can c;arify it more for you.

Last I heard the courts here told the Universities that they cannot ban carry on their campus as it would over-ride state laws.

MainelyGlock · Mar 31, 2012

SigGuy23 said:
As far as I remember. Colorado just recently did what Utah did and made it illegal for universities to ban carry by students and teachers that are allowed to by law. Some one from there can c;arify it more for you.

Wish Maine would do that. I would love to be able to OC at school here.

Deserteagle8338 · Mar 31, 2012

F350 said:
Colorado Mesa in Grand Junction.

Earlier, shortly after she got there, she was having a meeting with the university administrator over security and in the course of their meeting he mentioned "There are 26 faculty and staff we know of that have their CCWs" she looked him in the eye and said "27". She said he didn't even bat an eye. Seems to be a pretty accepting environment here.

By any chance do you know if we are legally allowed to open carry on any public college campus such as University of Colorado with our concealed carry permits?

Grapeshot · Mar 31, 2012

Grapeshot said:
Outstanding - the best repondent reply of the day!

Now to the real question - can she and other "faculty and staff" legally carry within the buildings and classrooms? Is there an official policy of the school or are they operating under a "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy?

SigGuy23 said:
As far as I remember. Colorado just recently did what Utah did and made it illegal for universities to ban carry by students and teachers that are allowed to by law. Some one from there can c;arify it more for you.

jhco50 said:
Last I heard the courts here told the Universities that they cannot ban carry on their campus as it would over-ride state laws.

Does anyone have a link to the applicable statute(s) and/or such court decisions that would support this?

F350 · Mar 31, 2012

OK, I'm new to Colorado but to my knowledge UC was the only college/university still banning any type of carry on campus and they just got slapped down by the Colorado Supreme Court so both CCW and OC should be no problem on any public college/university campus.

OK the new article only talks about concealed carry, but since there is no law allowing OC if colleges and universities have to follow state law on CC IMHO OC would have to be allowed.....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/06/us-guns-colorado-university-idUSTRE82504920120306

skidmark · Mar 31, 2012

F350 said:
OK, OK the new article only talks about concealed carry, but since there is no law allowing OC if colleges and universities have to follow state law on CC IMHO OC would have to be allowed.....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/06/us-guns-colorado-university-idUSTRE82504920120306

Pardon the rant, but -

Laws do not allow anything. Never, ever, not nohow, no way. Laws list the things that are illegal, and some of them then include exemptions to the illegality. Like the laws (don't know if Colorado has one but would guess it does) against concealed carry, which then lists having a permit/license as an examption to the crime of carrying concealed.

Most of the time regulations and policies list things that must be done and often avoid an additional procedure by listing how that thing is to be done.

The above comes from 5 years of post-graduate study of bureauacracy and a lifetime of living with them. It's a down&dirty explanation that might skip over some of the finer points, but the major point is that laws never allow anything. Please take pity on an Oulde Phart and stop saying/writing that. Thank you.

/rant

stay safe.

JamesB · Mar 31, 2012

jhco50 said:
Last I heard the courts here told the Universities that they cannot ban carry on their campus as it would over-ride state laws.

At the moment, it is LEGAL to carry there...

So you can't get arrested. That doesn't mean you c an't be expelled, suspended, or fired.

hermannr · Mar 31, 2012

IMHO whatever CO state law is, that is what the university system has to live with. Your Supreme Court just said so.

F350 · Apr 1, 2012

skidmark said:
Pardon the rant, but -

Laws do not allow anything. Never, ever, not nohow, no way. Laws list the things that are illegal, and some of them then include exemptions to the illegality. Like the laws (don't know if Colorado has one but would guess it does) against concealed carry, which then lists having a permit/license as an examption to the crime of carrying concealed.

Most of the time regulations and policies list things that must be done and often avoid an additional procedure by listing how that thing is to be done.

The above comes from 5 years of post-graduate study of bureauacracy and a lifetime of living with them. It's a down & dirty explanation that might skip over some of the finer points, but the major point is that laws never allow anything. Please take pity on an Oulde Phart and stop saying/writing that. Thank you.

/rant

stay safe.

I was perhaps too brief in my post; your post is exactly the way I usually argue when someone says "show me the law where that is allowed". US law is based on prohibitions not permissions, that which is not illegal is legal.

I need to get more familiar with Colorado firearms preemption law

What I was getting at is there is only a law permitting Concealed Carry (or more precisely granting an exception to the prohibition on CC) and that was the main thrust of the court ruling.

F350 · Apr 1, 2012

JamesB said:
At the moment, it is LEGAL to carry there...

So you can't get arrested. That doesn't mean you c an't be expelled, suspended, or fired.

Actually I think that is exactly what it means, the case was brought by students who had CCWs and wanted to carry on campus.

JamesB · Apr 2, 2012

F350 said:
Actually I think that is exactly what it means, the case was brought by students who had CCWs and wanted to carry on campus.

And what the ruling said was that the students were right and they should be allowed to carry.

Meaning that the policy was essentially against the law.

Until they cange the campus carry policy however, it places you in the same position I was in '07 when I was expelled...but not arrested.

And there is nothing that says they actually will change it... Just because the US Supreme struck down the DC ban, doesn't mean they changed things overnight.

since9 · Apr 2, 2012

SigGuy23 said:
As far as I remember. Colorado just recently did what Utah did and made it illegal for universities to ban carry by students and teachers that are allowed to by law. Some one from there can c;arify it more for you.

Only public universities and colleges such as Colorado State University. They can mandate "No Open Display of Firearms" but they cannot deny firearms altogether.

Private colleges and universities retain the same legal status as private businesses.

Gunslinger · Apr 3, 2012

since9 said:
Only public universities and colleges such as Colorado State University. They can mandate "No Open Display of Firearms" but they cannot deny firearms altogether.

Private colleges and universities retain the same legal status as private businesses.

Exactly right. The State Regents thought they were above the law, which is full state preemption. The COSC corrected their thinking. OC can be banned, as it is not legal, merely not 'illegal,' but not CC. Grape, there is a thread on the COSC decision.
http://www.9news.com/news/local/article/253933/346/Court-rules-against-campus-gun-ban-

Campus, OC, LEO encounter

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Legendary Warrior

Regular Member

Activist Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Legendary Warrior

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member