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Saw This in WWU Western Front

Wolfebane

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http://westernfrontonline.net/news/14465-courts-throw-out-gun-ban-in-city-parks-throughout-state

This article makes it seem like that you can ONLY concealed carry in WA state parks. I am interested in writing a, I guess, Letter to the Editor, (never done that before), since I am a student attending WWU. And I just want to make sure I am in the right before I do anything. It is 100% legal to open carry in WA state public parks? Can I get some relevant RCW's from some people who know them much better than I do. (I just want to be certain of my facts before I write a "public" letter.)
 

Thor80

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You are correct in that one does not even need a CPL to OC in a park. Washington State Law RCW 9.41.300 states where it is not legal to carry period! Anywhere else with the exception of "Outdoor Music Festivals" is fair game to OC without a CPL including National(In Washington, National Parks follow state law of which state it is in, so some national parks can be off-limits to carry)/State/County/City parks. The only authority the State gives to enact "possession" restrictions is outlined also in RCW 9.41.300, which also EXEMPTS CPL holders from any "possession" restricted areas. Same goes for folks that have a CPL and want to conceal.

(2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

(a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others; and

(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

(ii) Any showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.
 
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geojohn

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Snohomish County, Washington, USA
Local police or sheriff departments can grant a concealed weapon permit after an applicant passes an extensive background check, Rollin said.

She also got the name wrong. There's no such thing as a "concealed weapon permit" in Washington. It's correctly referred to as a "concealed pistol license" or "license to carry concealed pistol".
 

deanf

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Same goes for folks that have a CPL and want to conceal.


I understand the argument, but would recommended not making a preemption argument in your letter. Preemption does not apply to state agencies. The state cannot preempt itself. That's a legal absurdity.

A few years ago the state Parks and Recreation Commission changed their firearms rules - they liberalized them. I will research and see if I can find the meeting minutes where that happened. It will make your case for you. Stand by please . . .
 

hermannr

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I understand the argument, but would recommended not making a preemption argument in your letter. Preemption does not apply to state agencies. The state cannot preempt itself. That's a legal absurdity.

A few years ago the state Parks and Recreation Commission changed their firearms rules - they liberalized them. I will research and see if I can find the meeting minutes where that happened. It will make your case for you. Stand by please . . . [/COLOR]

Actually, not quite true..The Legislature is the pre-empting party....if you are not of the Legislature...you are not going to write your own law.
 
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Thor80

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I understand the argument, but would recommended not making a preemption argument in your letter. Preemption does not apply to state agencies. The state cannot preempt itself. That's a legal absurdity.

A few years ago the state Parks and Recreation Commission changed their firearms rules - they liberalized them. I will research and see if I can find the meeting minutes where that happened. It will make your case for you. Stand by please . . . [/COLOR]

I was not making a pre-emption case. I was stating that one can OC or conceal anywhere not restricted by .300 or "outdoor music festival". I was also pointing out that the state does allow for "restricted possession" in a few places but Exempts CPL holders from those restrictions. Ie: one cannot OC in a convention center without a cpl if they have restricted carry at said center. One COULD OC at said center if they had a CPL or since they have a CPL could also choose to conceal at said center and still be in compliance with state law...

-Thor
 
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deanf

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I'm confused. The article you link to doesn't say anything about state parks.

Or did you mean "all parks in Washington State"
 
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deanf

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See this thread for information about the State Parks and Recreation Commission changing their rules in 2003 to allow carrying of firearms.

I made the erroneous 9.41.290 preemption argument in that thread back in 2003. My understanding of the law has matured in 8 years . . .
 

gogodawgs

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Oct 25, 2009
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Federal Way, Washington, USA
http://westernfrontonline.net/news/14465-courts-throw-out-gun-ban-in-city-parks-throughout-state

This article makes it seem like that you can ONLY concealed carry in WA state parks. I am interested in writing a, I guess, Letter to the Editor, (never done that before), since I am a student attending WWU. And I just want to make sure I am in the right before I do anything. It is 100% legal to open carry in WA state public parks? Can I get some relevant RCW's from some people who know them much better than I do. (I just want to be certain of my facts before I write a "public" letter.)

Are you referring to 'state' parks or city parks as the article refers to?

The following piece of misinformation should be countered every time Mayor McGinn says it:

"A park is no place for a gun,” McGinn said. “We are facing a public safety emergency fueled by gun violence.”

Mayor can you offer once piece of actual evidence in an objective manor that says we are facing a public safety emergency fueled by gun violence? Perhaps Mayor McGinn you are confused with actual gang and convicted felons committing violence with all kinds of weapons including but not limited to guns. These felons and gang members certainly attack law abiding citizens at parks and other places. A park or any place I have a legal right to be is certainly a place for me to take my gun in order to defend my life from these gang members and felons.

Mayor, to help you decide what an actual emergency is the dictionary definition is as follows:

sudden, urgent, usually unexpected occurrence or occasion requiring immediate action.

Mayor are you saying that if I go to a Seattle park right now a gun will be violent towards me?
 
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Thor80

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Spokane County, WA
Are you referring to 'state' parks or city parks as the article refers to?


I'm not the OP, but I took that as meaning "Parks" in Washington State. Dog Park, State Park Campgrounds, City Parks, etc.... Maybe he'll chime in but I don't think he meant it to be "State Parks" only?

-Thor
 

Wolfebane

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I'm not the OP, but I took that as meaning "Parks" in Washington State. Dog Park, State Park Campgrounds, City Parks, etc.... Maybe he'll chime in but I don't think he meant it to be "State Parks" only?

-Thor

As I understand it, but since this is a very localized publication I'm sure the author was only "thinking" of parks in Bellingham, but I meant it to be parks in Washington state not state parks OF Washington.
 

Lammo

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Spokane, Washington, USA
Local police or sheriff departments can grant a concealed weapon permit after an applicant passes an extensive background check, Rollin said.

She also got the name wrong. There's no such thing as a "concealed weapon permit" in Washington. It's correctly referred to as a "concealed pistol license" or "license to carry concealed pistol".

And it's also not "can" grant it's must or, rather, shall issue. She makes it sound like there is discretion on the part of the issuing agency. True in some places but not in Washington:

RCW9.41.070 (1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person within this state for five years from date of issue, for the purposes of protection or while engaged in business, sport, or while traveling.

Emphasis added. Link: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.070
 

jt59

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Local police or sheriff departments can grant a concealed weapon permit after an applicant passes an extensive background check, Rollin said.



And it's also not "can" grant it's must or, rather, shall issue. She makes it sound like there is discretion on the part of the issuing agency. True in some places but not in Washington:

RCW9.41.070 (1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person within this state for five years from date of issue, for the purposes of protection or while engaged in business, sport, or while traveling.

Emphasis added. Link: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.070

Although, as you note, it appears that the author was quoting "Rollin", and should have cited the inaccuracy..

Local police or sheriff departments can grant a concealed weapon permit after an applicant passes an extensive background check, Rollin said. The permit costs $60 and can take up to 30 days to receive.
 
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k.rollin

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Feb 18, 2010
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Location
Bellingham, Washington, USA
Although, as you note, it appears that the author was quoting "Rollin", and should have cited the inaccuracy..

Local police or sheriff departments can grant a concealed weapon permit after an applicant passes an extensive background check, Rollin said. The permit costs $60 and can take up to 30 days to receive.

The author of the article misinterpreted my statements regarding the issuance of a WA CPL in that paraphrased section. I had explained that WA is a shall-issue state, wherein any applicant who passes their background check and pays to play will receive their CPL. This article made no mention of open carry, though I did discuss it in the interview for the story. Having just read the article, it also appears that the author took the direct quotes out of context as well.
 
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hermannr

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Okanogan Highland
Actually, that is not quite true either. RCW 9.41.290 says that the "State of Washington" is the pre-empting party.



The RCW does not reserve the entire field of firearms regulation to ONLY the legislature. You are correct, only the legislature can enact statutes with criminal penalties. However, the way I read RCW 9.41.290 is that if a state agency chose to prohibit firearms in facilities under the control of that agency, they could do so. But it would not be a criminal act to possess a firearm in those state controlled facilities.

One example of this regulatory authority that has been used by a state agency not the legislature is the fact that a licensed day care center in Washington must prohibit firearms on the premises as a condition of their license. You will find that in Washington Administrative Code, not in RCW. A licensed day care center that does not ban firearms on the premises can lose their state issued license - and the legislature has nothing to do with that, although they could overrule the Washington Administrative Code by enacting a statute.

And Just like the Oregon University system "rule"...the court can throw out any regulation that is contrary to state LAW. Yes, I firmly believe that if someone chalanged our Board of Regents, the result would be the same as Oregon's, same the the day care system. WAC's are not LAW...RCW's are.
 
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