So my 8 weeks are about to up...

Haight240z · Sep 30, 2012

My 8 weeks are about to be up (Oct. 16th to be exact) and I have applied for my permit in Waterbury and they told me 14-16 weeks. After reading a lot of the posts in this forum it seems to me the consensus is that I start the appeal process when my 8 weeks come up. What I would like to know is what exactly is the process and what form/information do I need and how should I prepare? Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated.

davidmcbeth · Sep 30, 2012

This depends .. how do you want to play the game ...

You can go to the board's website ... they want a letter and then they'll send you a questionnaire. And they send a questionnaire to the issuing authority. Most of the ? in the questionnaires are not mandatory and are irrelevant.

The process will take about 6 mo to 9 mo for the appeal to the board.

Do you own a handgun now? This opens up another argument.

Haight240z · Sep 30, 2012

davidmcbeth said:
This depends .. how do you want to play the game ...

You can go to the board's website ... they want a letter and then they'll send you a questionnaire. And they send a questionnaire to the issuing authority. Most of the ? in the questionnaires are not mandatory and are irrelevant.

The process will take about 6 mo to 9 mo for the appeal to the board.

Do you own a handgun now? This opens up another argument.

No I do not own a handgun now; I was waiting until I got my permit so I can buy one. Out of curiosity what do you mean by "how do I want to play the game"? I like how you refer to it as a game.

davidmcbeth · Oct 1, 2012

Haight240z said:
No I do not own a handgun now; I was waiting until I got my permit so I can buy one. Out of curiosity what do you mean by "how do I want to play the game"? I like how you refer to it as a game.

Well, the questionnaire that they provide you to complete (you can find it at their website ... http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?a=3291&Q=419136) the board is certainly playing games... why do they need to know: your employer , your DMV record, your arrest record etc..

So, how do you want to play the game? The ask many questions that are simply not relevant and ones that can actually cause you harm. The employer one is especially disturbing .. they can contact your employer and tell them you are seeking a permit; your employer is free to terminate you for this reason.

According to Connecticut administrative law:
Sec. 4-178. Contested cases. Evidence. In contested cases: (1) Any oral or documentary evidence may be received, but the agency shall, as a matter of policy, provide for the exclusion of irrelevant, immaterial or unduly repetitious evidence; (2) agencies shall give effect to the rules of privilege recognized by law; (3) when a hearing will be expedited and the interests of the parties will not be prejudiced substantially, any part of the evidence may be received in written form; (4) documentary evidence may be received in the form of copies or excerpts, if the original is not readily available, and upon request, parties and the agency conducting the proceeding shall be given an opportunity to compare the copy with the original; (5) a party and such agency may conduct cross-examinations required for a full and true disclosure of the facts; (6) notice may be taken of judicially cognizable facts and of generally recognized technical or scientific facts within the agency's specialized knowledge; (7) parties shall be notified in a timely manner of any material noticed, including any agency memoranda or data, and they shall be afforded an opportunity to contest the material so noticed; and (8) the agency's experience, technical competence, and specialized knowledge may be used in the evaluation of the evidence.

Are you willing to object to irrelevant questions? Your arrests and DMV record is not relevant as they do not mean anything to your gun rights. But if you do answer and miss a ticket, then you'll be found ineligible due to lying on the form. So, the "game" is the protection of your rights; you willing to fight for them or do you wish to just provide them whatever information they ask from you?
Your employer may not terminate you, I am not trying to scare you but it is a possibility - some employers are anti-gun to this point. I have had employers ask me if I owned guns

Rich B · Oct 1, 2012

Haight240z said:
After reading a lot of the posts in this forum it seems to me the consensus is that I start the appeal process when my 8 weeks come up.

You should not be waiting until 8 weeks are up.

The local issuing authority has 5 days to send your prints to SPBI and 1 week to issue or deny your permit upon receiving your background check. Anything outside of that timeline should be appealed.

Get your dates from SPBI and appeal.

http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?a=1252&Q=254192&bfpeNav=

Haight240z · Oct 1, 2012

davidmcbeth said:
Well, the questionnaire that they provide you to complete (you can find it at their website ... http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?a=3291&Q=419136) the board is certainly playing games... why do they need to know: your employer , your DMV record, your arrest record etc..

So, how do you want to play the game? The ask many questions that are simply not relevant and ones that can actually cause you harm. The employer one is especially disturbing .. they can contact your employer and tell them you are seeking a permit; your employer is free to terminate you for this reason.

According to Connecticut administrative law:
Sec. 4-178. Contested cases. Evidence. In contested cases: (1) Any oral or documentary evidence may be received, but the agency shall, as a matter of policy, provide for the exclusion of irrelevant, immaterial or unduly repetitious evidence; (2) agencies shall give effect to the rules of privilege recognized by law; (3) when a hearing will be expedited and the interests of the parties will not be prejudiced substantially, any part of the evidence may be received in written form; (4) documentary evidence may be received in the form of copies or excerpts, if the original is not readily available, and upon request, parties and the agency conducting the proceeding shall be given an opportunity to compare the copy with the original; (5) a party and such agency may conduct cross-examinations required for a full and true disclosure of the facts; (6) notice may be taken of judicially cognizable facts and of generally recognized technical or scientific facts within the agency's specialized knowledge; (7) parties shall be notified in a timely manner of any material noticed, including any agency memoranda or data, and they shall be afforded an opportunity to contest the material so noticed; and (8) the agency's experience, technical competence, and specialized knowledge may be used in the evaluation of the evidence.

Are you willing to object to irrelevant questions? Your arrests and DMV record is not relevant as they do not mean anything to your gun rights. But if you do answer and miss a ticket, then you'll be found ineligible due to lying on the form. So, the "game" is the protection of your rights; you willing to fight for them or do you wish to just provide them whatever information they ask from you?
Your employer may not terminate you, I am not trying to scare you but it is a possibility - some employers are anti-gun to this point. I have had employers ask me if I owned guns

I'm not too concerned with my employer being questioned seeing as I work for the Marlin Company which was the gun company until they sold the name a few years ago. Now in order to appeal do I need to fill everything out like the DMV record (which I don't even know how to get). I've never been arrested.

Rich B said:
You should not be waiting until 8 weeks are up.

The local issuing authority has 5 days to send your prints to SPBI and 1 week to issue or deny your permit upon receiving your background check. Anything outside of that timeline should be appealed.

Get your dates from SPBI and appeal.

http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?a=1252&Q=254192&bfpeNav=

Now Rich can I even get my dates from SPBI without my receipt from the money order (which I now know I should have kept)? The receipt from the local PD for the fingerprinting was a torn half piece of paper with the date, what I had done, and how much I paid; no sort of receipt number or anything on it.

Rich B · Oct 1, 2012

Haight240z said:
Now Rich can I even get my dates from SPBI without my receipt from the money order (which I now know I should have kept)? The receipt from the local PD for the fingerprinting was a torn half piece of paper with the date, what I had done, and how much I paid; no sort of receipt number or anything on it.

Yes, you can get it without the money order receipt, but you will not be their favorite person of the day. Just explain that you don't have it and ask how else you can go about it. I know they have helped other people without it.

Call them and ask for 'records'. The best number I have is: (860) 685-8250

davidmcbeth · Oct 1, 2012

Haight240z said:
I'm not too concerned with my employer being questioned seeing as I work for the Marlin Company which was the gun company until they sold the name a few years ago. Now in order to appeal do I need to fill everything out like the DMV record (which I don't even know how to get). I've never been arrested.
.

You do not need to fill out that page at all. I objected to the completion of that page (arrest and DMV record) and my objection was sustained - they accepted it w/o this being completed.

Your objecting will not slow your appeal down.

IF you wish to get your record from DMV; simply attach it with an annotation on the last page of the questionnaire: attached is a copy of my DMV record for the time period of X to Y obtained from DMV; its as accurate a record as DMV can produce. DMV stated that they cannot produce are records before time Y and I have no records of any further MV related issues. Therefore, the records attached may not be a complete record of MV history but it is the best available record.

I think you would crazy not to object though to many of the questions. The more information you provide, the more mud they can sling.

Haight240z · Oct 1, 2012

Rich B said:
Yes, you can get it without the money order receipt, but you will not be their favorite person of the day. Just explain that you don't have it and ask how else you can go about it. I know they have helped other people without it.

Call them and ask for 'records'. The best number I have is: (860) 685-8250

Rich, I called SPBI today at the number you gave me. I asked for records and was transferred. I asked this person about getting some dates and she said I need to wait because it will take a long time; 2-3 months and I need to be patient. I then stated when I completed the application and that I just wanted to know who's hands it was in now at least and she said it's at the FBI and they're being strict and it isn't easy to get a permit and they don't give them to just anyone. She then told me to call back next week and she would transfer me to someone else then. Now when she gave what little information she did it wasn't as if she looked up anything. She did ask my name and I gave her my first name and again she told me to call sometime next week.

Rich B · Oct 1, 2012

Haight240z said:
Rich, I called SPBI today at the number you gave me. I asked for records and was transferred. I asked this person about getting some dates and she said I need to wait because it will take a long time; 2-3 months and I need to be patient. I then stated when I completed the application and that I just wanted to know who's hands it was in now at least and she said it's at the FBI and they're being strict and it isn't easy to get a permit and they don't give them to just anyone. She then told me to call back next week and she would transfer me to someone else then. Now when she gave what little information she did it wasn't as if she looked up anything. She did ask my name and I gave her my first name and again she told me to call sometime next week.

Nothing she said is true. Call back and try to get someone else.

No background checks are taking 2-3 months, the FBI check is a 100% automated computer system that returns results in less than 48 hours.

Welcome to the world of dealing with public sector employees who want to get you off the phone instead of doing their job.

Try this number as well:

Connecticut State Police
1111 Country Club Road
Middletown, CT 06457
Telephone: 860-685-8190

I can't figure out the pattern, it all seems to be luck of the draw of who you get stuck with whether they want to do their job or not. Always get names so we can see who is causing problems and who is not.

Haight240z · Oct 1, 2012

Rich B said:
Nothing she said is true. Call back and try to get someone else.

No background checks are taking 2-3 months, the FBI check is a 100% automated computer system that returns results in less than 48 hours.

Welcome to the world of dealing with public sector employees who want to get you off the phone instead of doing their job.

Try this number as well:

Connecticut State Police
1111 Country Club Road
Middletown, CT 06457
Telephone: 860-685-8190

I can't figure out the pattern, it all seems to be luck of the draw of who you get stuck with whether they want to do their job or not. Always get names so we can see who is causing problems and who is not.

Looks like it will have to be tomorrow seeing as it's after 4. Is there a certain wait I should approach them to get a more definitive answer?

Rich B · Oct 1, 2012

Haight240z said:
Looks like it will have to be tomorrow seeing as it's after 4. Is there a certain wait I should approach them to get a more definitive answer?

I would just tell them you are calling to request the date that a background check was returned. They will almost definitely ask what the check was for (I have no idea why this matters to them), obviously tell them a pistol permit.

If they try to tell you the 2-3 month line or anything else but the date, you need to tell them you need to be transferred to someone who can get you the information. Ask to speak to their supervisor if necessary.

We are working on this mess, but it is not going to be fixed for sometime.

Haight240z · Oct 1, 2012

Rich B said:
I would just tell them you are calling to request the date that a background check was returned. They will almost definitely ask what the check was for (I have no idea why this matters to them), obviously tell them a pistol permit.

If they try to tell you the 2-3 month line or anything else but the date, you need to tell them you need to be transferred to someone who can get you the information. Ask to speak to their supervisor if necessary.

We are working on this mess, but it is not going to be fixed for sometime.

Thank you Rich. I will try that method tomorrow and will let you know how it goes; that is if you'd like me to keep you updated. I will also be sure to get the names of who I speak with. The woman I did speak with kind of gave me the impression that they were changing the background check process, I'm probably wrong but that's how it came across.

Rich B · Oct 1, 2012

Haight240z said:
The woman I did speak with kind of gave me the impression that they were changing the background check process, I'm probably wrong but that's how it came across.

I doubt it, but they do have a lot of turnover in leadership and legal affairs over there...

Clawed · Oct 1, 2012

Rich B said:
No background checks are taking 2-3 months, the FBI check is a 100% automated computer system that returns results in less than 48 hours.

Welcome to the world of dealing with public sector employees who want to get you off the phone instead of doing their job.

Try this number as well:

Connecticut State Police
1111 Country Club Road
Middletown, CT 06457
Telephone: 860-685-8190

I can't figure out the pattern, it all seems to be luck of the draw of who you get stuck with whether they want to do their job or not. Always get names so we can see who is causing problems and who is not.

as of oct. 1, 2012 its my second week of waiting, should i call state police to check on my background check before i call my local pd for the status?

Rich B · Oct 1, 2012

Clawed said:
as of oct. 1, 2012 its my second week of waiting, should i call state police to check on my background check before i call my local pd for the status?

You can either or. The state will need to tell you the status of your background checks (if the money orders have been cashed, that is a good sign they are processed). The local PD will likely tell you nothing or lie.

davidmcbeth · Oct 1, 2012

Here is 1 pg of the questionnaire as I completed it ... and I included a set of objections ...

all queries were met with OBJ = objection

I'll have to delete the attachment soon ... limited space on forum

brk913 · Oct 1, 2012

Rich and I both advised one of my students to contact SPBI and start his appeal, he reported back to me today and provided me with this number for SPBI 860-685-8480 he stated this is the direct line to the office you need...

Rich B · Oct 1, 2012

brk913 said:
Rich and I both advised one of my students to contact SPBI and start his appeal, he reported back to me today and provided me with this number for SPBI 860-685-8480 he stated this is the direct line to the office you need...

Excellent. I have been trying to track down the correct number.... Lets hope this one keeps working.

Haight240z · Oct 2, 2012

davidmcbeth said:
You do not need to fill out that page at all. I objected to the completion of that page (arrest and DMV record) and my objection was sustained - they accepted it w/o this being completed.

Your objecting will not slow your appeal down.

IF you wish to get your record from DMV; simply attach it with an annotation on the last page of the questionnaire: attached is a copy of my DMV record for the time period of X to Y obtained from DMV; its as accurate a record as DMV can produce. DMV stated that they cannot produce are records before time Y and I have no records of any further MV related issues. Therefore, the records attached may not be a complete record of MV history but it is the best available record.

I think you would crazy not to object though to many of the questions. The more information you provide, the more mud they can sling.

Now the only thing I'm concerned about is the fact that I know I cannot afford an attorney. Should I still file the appeal and worry about it when the time comes or what?

So my 8 weeks are about to up...

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