Thundar
Regular Member
The manual says non residents are always not approved.
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Why can't the Virginia State Police Follow Commonwealth LAW?
- Thread starter Thundar
- Start date
The manual says non residents are always not approved.
like i said they are not denied they are delayed. i believe it says they are not instantly approved.
Gutshot is correct but Thundar is looking for a loophole that says he doesnt have to have the check done or pay for it.
Thundar
Regular Member
Of course Federal Law must be followed, but...
In Virginia there is a 4473 Federal and an SP 65 Virginia background form to fill out. The federal Background check is a NICs check. The Virginia Background Check is CHRI Check.
If a firearm is a Curio or Relic, or if the person is a C&R FFL, then a CHRI is not required, even for a C&R FFL buying modern firearms.
This does not present a problem until one tries to get a NICs check for a C&R firearm, or get a NICs check for a person with a C&R firearm.
Virginia State Police have been designated as full POC for Virginia.
There is no grant of authority under Virginia law for the VSP to conduct background checks for C&R firearms or to conduct background checks for persons that hold C&R licenses.
The FBI can only grant POC status to state agencies or to localities as far as the authority has been granted under state law.
VSP background check procedures do not currently allow for NICs only checks. All VSP background checks include CHRI checks. They violate Commonwealth law by:
1) Unauthorized fee collection.
VSP requires dealers to collect $2 from transferees for all checks, even though Virginia code is clear that the $2 fee should only be collected for checks that are required by the Virginia Code section(18.2-308.2:2)
2) Not allowing C&R Licensees to purchase more than 1 handgun a month
Virginia code generally allows only 1 handgun a month to be purchased from a dealer. The code section does not apply to FFL C&R holders. The SP 65 (Virginia background check form) and the online form do not take account of this. Thus a Curio and Relic Licensee will not be permitted to purchase more than one modern handgun per month, even though they have been explicitly exempted from the one gun a month Virginia law.
Curio and Relic Firearms do not require CHRI Checks
The sale of Curio and Relic firearms to those that do not possess a C&R license is also exempted from CHRI Checks in the Virginia Background check code section. The VSP form (SP 65) and the online program do not take account of this exception to Virginia law and thus VSP require a CHRI check and collection of the $2 fee.
VSP Procedures prevent multiple handgun sales of Curio and Relic Firearms
Curio and relic firearms are not regulated under the multiple handgun sales law, but VSP procedures do not take this into account (SP 65 and online check system) and thus prevent the transfer of multiople curio and relic handguns in a 30 day period.
Ok once again the first part of this Curio and Relic Firearms do not require CHRI Checks
you are correct there is also no NICS check required so why are you entering the transaction for a check to be done. if you enter it you will be charged the 2.00.
then you state VSP Procedures prevent multiple handgun sales of Curio and Relic Firearms
since you dont need a CHRI or NICS check once again why are you having them fill out the sp65 or even entering it.
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Thundar
how long have you been a C&R dealer. If you are going to other dealers to purchase and they are requiring you
to have the background check done and you are having to pay the 2.00 have you ask them why. If they are entering you for the check because they want to rather than because they are required to maybe you need to educate some of them rather than try and bash the VSP.
how long have you been a C&R dealer. If you are going to other dealers to purchase and they are requiring you
to have the background check done and you are having to pay the 2.00 have you ask them why. If they are entering you for the check because they want to rather than because they are required to maybe you need to educate some of them rather than try and bash the VSP.
Thundar
Regular Member
tkd2006 - have you been hanging out with Mayor Bloomberg? Since when is following the law a loophole?
Mike
Site Co-Founder
OK - so, sounds like the dealer would have to figure out how to do the NICS check himself by calling FBI - can they do that? if not, that's a problem bertween you, the dealer, and the FBI, not the VSP.
Thundar
Regular Member
I have applied for the NICs Check and easy check from the FBI's NICs Operations Center. The FBI denied the request because VSP are the sole POC for Virginia because the VSP signed an MOU with the FBI. This is the same MOU that was the subject of my FOIA request. You know, the same MOU that VSP said in their FOIA response that they did not have.
Though I have not seen the MOU, the FBI NICs Operations Center has informed me that the VSP are obligated to process NICs checks un less they are precluded by state law.
Dreamer
Regular Member
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Have you requested a copy of the MOU from the FBI? The one the FBI claims to have, but VSP states they do not.
Edited to add: Whoops, my question had been answered on post#17 in another thread:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...ntact-(POC)-Information&p=1433129#post1433129
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Mike
Site Co-Founder
FOIA the VSP for the MOU and any records they have petaining to who is to run checks on curioss and relics.
thats just it there are no checks run on curios and relics by either entity. this is about a holder of a curios and relics license that want to purchase a modern firearm.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
That word in a FOI request could be 'spensive. Although, maybe less of an issue here, it is still prolly best to limit that just a little bit.
Don't be so pensive. Just give theme a limit of not to exceed w/o providing a cost estimate.
Though if I remember correctly their per page and hourly rate was outrageous.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
That, too.
But, in reference to the word "any", you can be surprised. Suddenly you get a letter saying they are authorized by law to request prepayment on anything over $200. And, of course, they have already invoked the additional seven days, because in their mind, they knew right away there were a lot of records and it would take a while to comply. So, on the fifteenth day, you get a letter, postmarked on the twelfth day, requesting prepayment for a huge sum, meaning half a month is gone and you still don't have the requested record(s).
You really want to take to heart those words "reasonable specificity".
If you are trawling for evidence, with deep pockets, then a broad net is appropriate.
If you only need one example of something, say so. For example, "any single memo, document, or receipt that gives the name or title of the person who sends out for pizza on Friday afternoon 12-2-10, whichever record is easiest to search and copy."
The name of the game is to spend a few moments guessing what records might exist, and then wording the line-item for each record in a way that doesn't end up giving you sixty pages of some policy, when the answer you wanted was at the bottom of page ten on a single sheet of paper.
Don't ask me how I learned this. And, especially don't ask me what it cost to learn it.
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Agree, though I doubt I have done nearly so many; hence have less hands on experience.
So how did you ...err .....what did it ..... oh never mind - point made. :lol:
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
I wonder what will happen if I say it....
All American Nightmare
Regular Member
Novacop will get his feelings hurt and call you a cop basher.......But who really cares Its novacop