OC Field Report with LEO, Starbucks, Stamford, CT

At approximately 0900 today I stopped in at a Starbucks on upper High Ridge Road. I did observe several Stamford Police cruisers in the lot on my arrival. I entered the store and observed two Stamford Police officers (sergeants) at a table near the service counter. I went directly to the service counter and ordered my coffee. I completed the transaction and proceeded to the coffee fixing counter. I was then approached by one of the officers that I identified as Sergeant Michele (correct spelling unknown). He advised me that I need to cover my firearm. He said that it is illegal to openly carry a firearm in the state of Connecticut. I advised him that I disagree. He informed me that if I did not cover the firearm with my shirt that there will be trouble and we will go downtown. I did cover the firearm. After fixing my drink, I went to my vehicle. I retrieved a copy of the CCDL pamphlet and engaged the officers back at the table they occupied. Sergeant Michele was the only officer of the two to communicate with me. He very briefly looked at the pamphet and then pronounced that he did not know anything about what the pamphlet says, but he knows that there is a statute that prohibits open carry in Connecticut, but he could not provide me with it at this time. I implored the officer to check with his departments training division so that he and his department do not get jammed up by this type of situation. I bid them good day and went to an outdoor table to enjoy my coffee. When the officers exited the store Sergeant Michele stopped and told me that he did just communicate with his training division. They advised him that about a year ago they got a letter telling them not to enforce the open carry law. He did also advise me that while it may be OK to open carry, the prudent thing for a citizen to do is not open carry. The encounter was civil and the officers were professional in as far as handling the situation with the poor information that they had and were providing.

I'm going to dispute professional, as they could have simply called in the question as to the legality. Ego got in the way and he was right and nothing you could do about it.

Then followed up with "open carry" law..... what law is that exactly?

I'll give it to you that they didn't bust you on sight, but dayum.

Seems there is still quite a bit to do in that town.

Jonathan

!!!FOIA that OC non- enforment letter!!

OCinCT said:

Sergeant Michele stopped and told me that he did just communicate with his training division. They advised him that about a year ago they got a letter telling them not to enforce the open carry law. .

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:question:I would really like to read that letter it is FOIA-able, If they give it up!:question:

Sounds good. I would like to see you follow up with the PD as far as getting better training for their officers. The officers said they were told to not 'enforce the law against open carry', but they don't seem to understand that there is no law against open carry. At all.

Perhaps this should be the first site for an OC get together.

Rich B said:

The officers said they were told to not 'enforce the law against open carry', ..

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This is not the inferece i drew from the origional post.

"They advised him that about a year ago they got a letter telling them not to enforce the open carry law. He did also advise me that while it may be OK to open carry, the prudent thing for a citizen to do is not open carry."

I took it as "we tell you to cover up even thought it's legal and there may be conciquences (This letter told us to do this), & throught this letter were told not to allow open carry, because preudent people wouldent due it"

:question:Maybe the poster could clairfy!:question:

Keeping it real, The poster got punked, this "rouge agent" of the state, stole your rights & you complied! If it was me and I dident feel like gettin' draged in that day, at a minium I would file complatints at the states attorneys office, go to the police comissions hearing, & punk him back, someone needs to put him in check

You Have to file in writeing:

Office of the Cheif States Attorney
300 Corperate Place
Rocky Hill, CT 06067
ATTN: Finincial Crime's Beauro

They Handle complaints against the PD, At least let them put that in his file.

Then go to the Next police comission hearing, where the topic will be fresh, and put it on file that it's legal, and see if the Comissions throw out there own biast opinion.

Iv'e been in situations where the officer is asserting B.S. IE his own lawless nonsence, & I say allright call disbatch and lets talk to the Cheif to get clairity, i dont want to run into this again i can assure what im telling you is fact! (Numerous times the've back right down, & the dynamic changes for some reason they don't like to call, another side effect is The cheif law enforcement officer is dirctly linked in to any action, IE their report, and they cant blame it on front line employee's, not knowing there is no wiggle room, for actions or excuses going foward.

OCinCT said:

He did also advise me that while it may be OK to open carry, the prudent thing for a citizen to do is not open carry.

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First he was completely wrong about the law regarding open carry. Then after discovering he was wrong he had the nerve to give you advice on how to carry...man these stories amaze me...

I would like to say:

The officer was indeed wrong. We will take what measures we can as a community to fix this. This is what I have in mind so far:

1) An OC get together at the Starbucks. This particular Starbucks has a police substation nearby. In addition to us having a good time and sharing ideas, we might have the opportunity to help the PD's understanding of the laws in this state and our rights. In addition they will see that our friend here is not a rogue individual who is uninformed. They will experience that we are a well educated and polite and professional community that is already here to stay.

2) A FOI request should be issued for:
a) All training documents related to carrying of firearms among citizens and in particular openly carried firearms. We should also make a point to see if such a letter does exist and find out what it says.
b) Any radio or dispatch communications related to the events surrounding this incident.
c) Any written or electronic files or communication relating to this incident.

3) The district captain for that district should be contacted so we can find out if he is informed and ready to educate his officers. That might be the case, or they might stand strong and pretend that there is some issue with open carry in Connecticut in which case we may need to get more assertive and use other legal remedies.



Overall, we need to stand by our fellow OCer and show support for our rights whenever someone attempts to step on them.

I agree Rich this definitely needs following up. I'd be available for an OC get together on the date u listed in the other thread. I think its a great idea

Rich - It might be worth contacting the Starbucks district manager that you've had communications with around the OS incident and ask them to brief the Stamford manager.

I would do this to avoid the manager asking us to leave simply because the manager has the authority to ask us to leave. The cops don't.

Don

I'm on the fence regarding contacting the DM.

I see the point, but.......

I don't want it to look like we're using the Starbucks vehicle at their expense.

Rich has a letter from the DM (I'd verify that the same person is indeed the DM). As I recall from Rich's experience last year, the managers were notified about the corporate stance on the issue.

Besides, we will be spending money there, and I think Starbucks kinda likes that concept! I think they want to sell as many fourbuckaccinos as possible!

Jonathan

dcmdon said:

Rich - It might be worth contacting the Starbucks district manager that you've had communications with around the OS incident and ask them to brief the Stamford manager.

I would do this to avoid the manager asking us to leave simply because the manager has the authority to ask us to leave. The cops don't.

Don

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Dont ask permission to drink coffee regardless of how you choose to carry. Starbucks has a clearly defined national policy anyway.

I don't really understand why everyone keeps going back over and over this letter from Starbucks anyway. They have a national policy, one employee in one store messed up. The DM was talked to, was apologetic and corrected things. She also promised to make sure all the stores in CT understood the law.

OC is legal in CT. There is no need to announce your choice of carry to anyone. There is no need to explain your 'intentions'.

The idea of a meetup is to get together over coffee and discuss ideas and exchange thoughts. There is nothing implied about any protest or civil disobedience or anything else.

The idea is to have coffee with like minded people. Whether you choose to have the means to defend yourself and in what manner you choose to wear that means is irrelevant.

I should also point out that I don't see anything in the OP about anyone from Starbucks giving anyone any trouble or that there was any indication that they called the police. I have a hard time justifying bothering the DM when her employees are doing their job correctly. I surely do not announce it to her every time I drop in on a new Starbucks (Madison, Old Saybrook, Branford, Meriden, etc) and I have never had a problem since Old Saybrook.

OCinCT said:

SNIP He informed me that if I did not cover the firearm with my shirt that there will be trouble and we will go downtown.

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Threatened with arrest for doing something perfectly legal?

Rich B said:

Dont ask permission to drink coffee regardless of how you choose to carry. Starbucks has a clearly defined national policy anyway.

I don't really understand why everyone keeps going back over and over this letter from Starbucks anyway. They have a national policy, one employee in one store messed up. The DM was talked to, was apologetic and corrected things. She also promised to make sure all the stores in CT understood the law.

OC is legal in CT. There is no need to announce your choice of carry to anyone. There is no need to explain your 'intentions'.

The idea of a meetup is to get together over coffee and discuss ideas and exchange thoughts. There is nothing implied about any protest or civil disobedience or anything else.

The idea is to have coffee with like minded people. Whether you choose to have the means to defend yourself and in what manner you choose to wear that means is irrelevant.

I should also point out that I don't see anything in the OP about anyone from Starbucks giving anyone any trouble or that there was any indication that they called the police. I have a hard time justifying bothering the DM when her employees are doing their job correctly. I surely do not announce it to her every time I drop in on a new Starbucks (Madison, Old Saybrook, Branford, Meriden, etc) and I have never had a problem since Old Saybrook.

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This is not about asking permission. Its about asking the DM to brief the local store manager so he doesn't ask us to leave. Regardless of corporate policy, if the local manager calls the cops and asks us to leave, we have to leave. Thats all I was saying. Although you make some good points. Either way, life permitting, I'm in.

Don

Which day/date and time were any of you planning an OC outing at the stamford starbucks on highridge?

dcmdon said:

This is not about asking permission. Its about asking the DM to brief the local store manager so he doesn't ask us to leave.

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Again, I don't 'brief' people on where I plan to do legal things. If the manager is not up on national policies and the law we will have to fix that as it becomes an issue.

Rich, the letter is an immediate way you can inform the staff if a situation develops.

What happened during your "Starbucks incident".... were you asked to leave by an ill informed employee and law enfarcement?

Jonathan

KIX said:

Rich, the letter is an immediate way you can inform the staff if a situation develops.

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Letter or not, if I am asked to leave, I leave. Those things can be sorted out later when there is no risk of being trespassed.

What happened during your "Starbucks incident".... were you asked to leave by an ill informed employee and law enfarcement?

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LEO told me one of the employees didn't want me back in. Been back in almost every weekend since with zero problems. Starbucks handled it like professionals should. That is why it is not an issue.

I am still waiting on a reply in PM from the OP on a few things before taking any actions.