oak1971
Regular Member
I saw it coming a mile away. The NRA only makes money if there are permits and training. Follow the money. Trust, but verify.
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NRA to Push Aggressive Legislative Agenda During Wisconsin's 2011 Legislative Session
- Thread starter paul@paul-fisher.com
- Start date
I saw it coming a mile away. The NRA only makes money if there are permits and training. Follow the money. Trust, but verify.
jpm84092
Regular Member
The NRA Press Release
I have read the NRA Press Release thoroughly; three times. It is clear to me that they are saying that they will use their lobby power to push strongly for a system in WI that mirrors AK and AZ; Constitutional Carry with optional permits for those who travel (or do not want the hassle of the Federal GFSZ). (And, yes, you do need a steenking permit to travel to MI, MN, IA (not IL - no carry there).
I really do not care who gets the credit, but I say to my fellow open carry advocates, in my opinion, it is GOOD NEWS to have the NRA with its' lobby power pushing with us rather than against us. Having NRA on our side means those who vote NO to Constitutional Carry will likely see their opponent get the coveted NRA voting endorsement during the next election cycle. That ought to give pause to the uber-liberals from Dane County and Milwaukee County.
It is probably not a coincidence that they are making a similar push in Iowa. Now that Iowa is about to be a "shall issue" State and go from not recognizing any other permit to recognizing all other permits (effective 1-1-11), NRA is pushing for Constitutional Carry. I think they have finally seen the light and understand that any limits placed on guns and gun ownership by law abiding citizens is an attack at their core values as well.
The NRA Firearm Course selection is reflecting this change of attitude with the introduction of "Personal Protection In The Home" and "Personal Protection Outside The Home". These two courses consist of common sense approaches to personal security, a section on State and Federal Gun Law, and shooting. No, not the stand at the range and fire standing, but draw from a concealed holster style defensive shooting (some would describe this as tactical and others as "quasi-tactical" live fire training) from behind cover. For those inclined to learn personal protection strategy, but not carry a handgun, there is the "Refuse to be a Victim" course.
In my "best possible outcome" world, the Wisconsin Legislature should:
1) Repeal the prohibition against carrying a concealed weapon.
2) Repeal all WI statutes dealing with carry within a School Zone.
3) Enact "shall issue" permit legislation with text that makes it clear that a permit is NOT REQUIRED to carry a concealed handgun within the borders of the State. Allow non-residents to obtain a WI Permit AND honor all out-of-state permits. (This gets us past the Federal Gun Free School Zones, provided WI does the background check mentioned in the Federal Statute.) - Make the "tax" on obtaining a permit affordable. And, with language that affirms that citizens can carry open or concealed at their option.
4) Do all of this very quickly.
I have read the NRA Press Release thoroughly; three times. It is clear to me that they are saying that they will use their lobby power to push strongly for a system in WI that mirrors AK and AZ; Constitutional Carry with optional permits for those who travel (or do not want the hassle of the Federal GFSZ). (And, yes, you do need a steenking permit to travel to MI, MN, IA (not IL - no carry there).
I really do not care who gets the credit, but I say to my fellow open carry advocates, in my opinion, it is GOOD NEWS to have the NRA with its' lobby power pushing with us rather than against us. Having NRA on our side means those who vote NO to Constitutional Carry will likely see their opponent get the coveted NRA voting endorsement during the next election cycle. That ought to give pause to the uber-liberals from Dane County and Milwaukee County.
It is probably not a coincidence that they are making a similar push in Iowa. Now that Iowa is about to be a "shall issue" State and go from not recognizing any other permit to recognizing all other permits (effective 1-1-11), NRA is pushing for Constitutional Carry. I think they have finally seen the light and understand that any limits placed on guns and gun ownership by law abiding citizens is an attack at their core values as well.
The NRA Firearm Course selection is reflecting this change of attitude with the introduction of "Personal Protection In The Home" and "Personal Protection Outside The Home". These two courses consist of common sense approaches to personal security, a section on State and Federal Gun Law, and shooting. No, not the stand at the range and fire standing, but draw from a concealed holster style defensive shooting (some would describe this as tactical and others as "quasi-tactical" live fire training) from behind cover. For those inclined to learn personal protection strategy, but not carry a handgun, there is the "Refuse to be a Victim" course.
In my "best possible outcome" world, the Wisconsin Legislature should:
1) Repeal the prohibition against carrying a concealed weapon.
2) Repeal all WI statutes dealing with carry within a School Zone.
3) Enact "shall issue" permit legislation with text that makes it clear that a permit is NOT REQUIRED to carry a concealed handgun within the borders of the State. Allow non-residents to obtain a WI Permit AND honor all out-of-state permits. (This gets us past the Federal Gun Free School Zones, provided WI does the background check mentioned in the Federal Statute.) - Make the "tax" on obtaining a permit affordable. And, with language that affirms that citizens can carry open or concealed at their option.
4) Do all of this very quickly.
Brass Magnet
Founder's Club Member
@jpm...... +1
Like I said before; don't look a gift horse in the mouth. It is much better that they are lobbying for Constitutional Carry than if they were only lobbying for "shall issue".
For an example I gave the NRA press release to a few NRA members at work. They are hardcore sportsman/hunters rights and were only for "shall issue" if at all. Now, suddenly that the NRA is supporting this they are pretty much for it as well. Many of these types will do whatever the NRA asks. Whether they "take credit" or not they have a large influence with their members and are a great plus to have on our side
The other thing that jpm talks about is very true as well. Like the people at my work, there are many representatives that want the NRA endorsment and may not get it if they don't go along with constitutional carry.
Yes, be inwardly skeptical, but be outwardly hopeful.
Like I said before; don't look a gift horse in the mouth. It is much better that they are lobbying for Constitutional Carry than if they were only lobbying for "shall issue".
For an example I gave the NRA press release to a few NRA members at work. They are hardcore sportsman/hunters rights and were only for "shall issue" if at all. Now, suddenly that the NRA is supporting this they are pretty much for it as well. Many of these types will do whatever the NRA asks. Whether they "take credit" or not they have a large influence with their members and are a great plus to have on our side
The other thing that jpm talks about is very true as well. Like the people at my work, there are many representatives that want the NRA endorsment and may not get it if they don't go along with constitutional carry.
Yes, be inwardly skeptical, but be outwardly hopeful.
springfield 1911
Founder's Club Member
Can't miss it when you read between the lines, and they are not really trying to hide it either. So yes to all posts above that are leary of the nra.
paul@paul-fisher.com
Regular Member
Trust but verify.
oak1971
Regular Member
paul@paul-fisher.com
Regular Member
oak1971
Regular Member
Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
....
"You can accomplish much as long as you don't care who gets credit for it" - Paraphrased from a General in WW2. They're going to push for constitutional carry a la Arizona but better. You folks in Wisconsin will probably have one of the most pro-2A respected statutes in the nation. Even better than Vermont (even they have on certain things, like Class 3).
I know this might seem unusual and wierd, but the NRA's membership roll here in Wisconsin dwarf the Wisconsin regulars on OCDO and even the Wisconsin Carry Inc's membership rolls by several orders of magnitude. Your chances of getting constitutional carry in Wisconsin just went way up. Take heart my friends, and steel yourself for the fight ahead.
"You can accomplish much as long as you don't care who gets credit for it" - Paraphrased from a General in WW2. They're going to push for constitutional carry a la Arizona but better. You folks in Wisconsin will probably have one of the most pro-2A respected statutes in the nation. Even better than Vermont (even they have on certain things, like Class 3).
I know this might seem unusual and wierd, but the NRA's membership roll here in Wisconsin dwarf the Wisconsin regulars on OCDO and even the Wisconsin Carry Inc's membership rolls by several orders of magnitude. Your chances of getting constitutional carry in Wisconsin just went way up. Take heart my friends, and steel yourself for the fight ahead.
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jpm84092
Regular Member
I am not as suspicious.
Based on what the NRA is doing in Iowa, I think the WI legislators will pause before going with a mandatory permit. IA was a "may issue" permit State that did not honor any other State's permit. Then, during the 2010 legislative session, the IA Legislature changed the law to "shall issue" and starting 1-1-11, IA will honor any other State's permit. Did NRA sit back an congratulate itself on a victory? NO - they are now pushing the IA legislature toward Constitutional Carry (no permit required) with an optional permit for IA Citizens who travel or do not wish to avoid the Federal GFSZ trap.
I think and hope that NRA is ready to pounce on this as a real opportunity. As for gun related business owners who push permit systems with required training and/or qualification shooting, let the NRA know who they are if you find one. If they are NRA instructors or members, they are likely to get a letter from NRA asking them not to deviate from the "Company Line". (I know that as an NRA Instructor, I can loose my NRA Certification if I deviate from the NRA way and "Company Line" during an NRA Class or representing NRA in any capacity.)
So, while skepticism is understandable, the verifiable evidence to date supports the conclusion that NRA really has changed its' attitude. And this is very good news. If NRA is going to continue to push Constitutional Carry, they will gain more momentum for Federal Legislation that would compel all States to honor any valid permit. If nothing else, the swelling ranks of Constitutional Carry States will put pressure on IL, CA, NY, MA, NJ and the other "no effective right to self defense" States toward re-examination of their position. And, NRA can "push" one State at a time to get other States to adopt Constitutional Carry.
Based on what the NRA is doing in Iowa, I think the WI legislators will pause before going with a mandatory permit. IA was a "may issue" permit State that did not honor any other State's permit. Then, during the 2010 legislative session, the IA Legislature changed the law to "shall issue" and starting 1-1-11, IA will honor any other State's permit. Did NRA sit back an congratulate itself on a victory? NO - they are now pushing the IA legislature toward Constitutional Carry (no permit required) with an optional permit for IA Citizens who travel or do not wish to avoid the Federal GFSZ trap.
I think and hope that NRA is ready to pounce on this as a real opportunity. As for gun related business owners who push permit systems with required training and/or qualification shooting, let the NRA know who they are if you find one. If they are NRA instructors or members, they are likely to get a letter from NRA asking them not to deviate from the "Company Line". (I know that as an NRA Instructor, I can loose my NRA Certification if I deviate from the NRA way and "Company Line" during an NRA Class or representing NRA in any capacity.)
So, while skepticism is understandable, the verifiable evidence to date supports the conclusion that NRA really has changed its' attitude. And this is very good news. If NRA is going to continue to push Constitutional Carry, they will gain more momentum for Federal Legislation that would compel all States to honor any valid permit. If nothing else, the swelling ranks of Constitutional Carry States will put pressure on IL, CA, NY, MA, NJ and the other "no effective right to self defense" States toward re-examination of their position. And, NRA can "push" one State at a time to get other States to adopt Constitutional Carry.
anmut
Regular Member
While I want to do a little dance in believing the hype I have to fall back on what lawyers have told me in the past. You ask for it all and then through litigation you get a compromise, which is what you wanted in the first place.
We need to stay diligent and make sure our reps know that we don't want LAWS that give us our rights, we want the LAWS REPEALED that infringes on our rights.
We need to stay diligent and make sure our reps know that we don't want LAWS that give us our rights, we want the LAWS REPEALED that infringes on our rights.
johnny amish
Regular Member
jpm, I hope you are correct. I have to admit the NRA has had me questioning their adjenda for some time now. This recent round of elections and who they support seems odd to me. It would be great if they would lend a hand in this fight, their influence and money would be a big help at this time. I just wish we haven't felt like they were ignoring this state for some time now. I hope their desire for constitutional carry is true. Permits, fees and more regulations is the last thing we need. Anyway this sure seems like good news.
BROKENSPROKET
Regular Member
I wanna see this legislation
I want to read it.
I have seen legislation on another topic before the sponsor introduced it. The Senator had the LRB draft it. It was argueably the best in the nation, but it still had holes in it.
I sure hopethe NRA lawyers drafts the legislation, cuz if its drafted by the LRB, it's gonna be skrewed up. They have skrewed up every piece of firearms legislation in WI so far.
I want to read it.
I have seen legislation on another topic before the sponsor introduced it. The Senator had the LRB draft it. It was argueably the best in the nation, but it still had holes in it.
I sure hopethe NRA lawyers drafts the legislation, cuz if its drafted by the LRB, it's gonna be skrewed up. They have skrewed up every piece of firearms legislation in WI so far.
Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Which topic are you speaking of? I want to read it. Which Senator? What LRB number?
-Gray
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BROKENSPROKET
Regular Member
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What is that?
Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
SBS's, SBR's, select fire weapons.
Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Yes, I'm a moderator.
Are you denoting a thread where that was posted or where you trying to do an ignore rather than answering a simple question?
paul@paul-fisher.com
Regular Member
Gray, if you look at the header or his post, it says 'I wanna see this legislation'.
Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
He stated:
"I have seen legislation on another topic before the sponsor introduced it. The Senator had the LRB draft it. It was argueably the best in the nation, but it still had holes in it."
What does "on another topic" mean? Does he mean carry, a different subject, or does he mean another thread in this forum? What's the context?
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