• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Dispatcher to Officer: "Use caution. CCW." --- Standard procedure?

BBlock

New member
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
8
Location
Wisconsin
I like to listen to a radio scanner for road conditions during winter storms. It was running in the background for a bit today while I searched the Internet for the latest relevant frequencies. One conversation between a dispatcher and officer caught my attention. At first I thought I heard the dispatcher say something about "CCW." After a pause I heard the same dispatcher come back and clearly say "Use caution. CCW." and wait for an acknowledgment from the officer. The officer acknowledged the message and seemed to go about business.

I don't listen to the scanner regularly, so my apologies if this is a silly question. Is this standard procedure? It was my personal impression that an officer in Wisconsin is supposed to handle the discovery about whether someone is carrying a weapon and is a Concealed Carry License holder before they confirm license validity with a system provided by the Wisconsin Department of Justice. Seems to me that what happened in this case was the reverse--The dispatcher searched for a name in a database of CCL holders and provided info back to the officer on the scene. Did I misunderstand how the process is supposed to work? Does this process vary by department? Is every stopped Wisconsin Concealed Carry License holder now branded by a dispatcher as requiring "caution" regardless of whether they are actually carrying a weapon or not? I think some clarity from the experts would be appreciated by all. Thanks in advance!
 

GLOCK21GB

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
4,347
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
By law That's not how it's supposed to work..but....that illegal practice behavior would not surprise me one bit. Every Traffic stop now get's a CCW check before the officer approaches the car..Illegal but who is going to stop every LE agency in the state from doing it on a daily basis ??? If that is what happened does it surprise anyone that the Police would side step the Law for their own benefit (( i mean safety )) ?
 

HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol
Where did it happen? What dept? What day and time?

Can the radio call/stop be requested through the FOIA?
 

HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol
Well I don't know about you but this seems like a pretty serious offense.

Hope we can get some more info from the OP.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
:shocker: :cuss:
HandyHamlet said:
Where did it happen? What dept? What day and time?
Can the radio call/stop be requested through the FOIA?
What he said.

Write a FOIA request for radio & phone traffic for maybe 15min either side of when you heard that, in case your memory or their timer is off.
That's a clear violation of the law, and should be brought to light ASAP.
In fact, if they do that routinely, perhaps an investigative reporter should FOIA radio traffic for all their motor vehicle stops since 01NOV & see how many more violations they've racked up.

A very good example of why there should not be permits or a database.
And that department needs some training...
"use caution" with a licensee?!?!?! Idiots.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Also possible that it's someone just dropping a rock in the pond to see what happens.
Give him a couple days to get back to us with the details.
OTOH, if we do get details, I'd like to see what that LEA would do with FOIA requests from across the state, asking for recordings of radio traffic for different time periods...
If we get enough people, we could each ask for 1 day.
Wouldn't be too expensive, & they couldn't try to deny the request as being too burdensome.
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
...Is every stopped Wisconsin Concealed Carry License holder now branded by a dispatcher as requiring "caution" regardless of whether they are actually carrying a weapon or not? I think some clarity from the experts would be appreciated by all. Thanks in advance!
What was the station identification/to what jurisdiction were you listening?

It is clear that the legislative intent was to prevent a vehicle registration/drivers license being branded as belonging to a CCL holder. It is as clear that their attempt was ineffective.

Wisconsin Statutes said:
175.60(12g) PROVIDING LICENSEE INFORMATION TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES.
(a) The department shall provide information concerning a specific individual on the list maintained under sub. (12) (a) to a law enforcement agency, but only if the law enforcement agency is requesting the information for any of the following purposes:
1. To confirm that a license or certification card produced by an individual at the request of a law enforcement officer is valid.
2. If an individual is carrying a concealed weapon and claims to hold a valid license issued under this section or a valid certification card issued under s. 175.49 (3) but does not have his or her license document or certification card, to confirm that an individual holds a valid license or certification card.
3. If the law enforcement agency is a Wisconsin law enforcement agency, to investigate whether an individual submitted an intentionally false statement under sub. (7) (b) or (15) (b) 2.
(b) 1. Notwithstanding s. 19.35, neither a law enforcement agency nor any of its employees may make information regarding an individual that was obtained from the department under this subsection available to the public except in the context of a prosecution for an offense in which the person’s status as a licensee or holder of a certification card is relevant.
2. Neither a law enforcement agency nor any of its employees may store or maintain information regarding an individual that was obtained from the department under this subsection based on the individual’s status as a licensee or holder of a certificate card.
3. Neither a law enforcement agency nor any of its employees may sort or access information regarding vehicle stops, investigations, civil or criminal offenses, or other activities involving the agency based on the status as licensees or holders of certification cards of any individuals involved.
 
Last edited:
M

McX

Guest
By law That's not how it's supposed to work..but....that illegal practice behavior would not surprise me one bit. Every Traffic stop now get's a CCW check before the officer approaches the car..Illegal but who is going to stop every LE agency in the state from doing it on a daily basis ??? If that is what happened does it surprise anyone that the Police would side step the Law for their own benefit (( i mean safety )) ?

i agree with what he said
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
I hope the OP has additional information. This could be proof of a MAJOR procedure infraction.
Do you have a better citation to the law than §175.60(12g) posted above? In the same way that state firearms preemption and the time limit on issue of CCL is ineffective, so is §175.60(12g).
 

nonameisgood

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
1,008
Location
Big D
Was this a routine traffic stop, or was it an MWAG with a concealed weapon, not necessarily licensed, or something else? It is possible the dispatcher had this information from a different source, like the 911 caller. ("my husband has been beating me... and he carries a gun")
Around here, CCW refers to (illegally) carrying of a concealed weapon, not licensed carry of a handgun.
 

msusnVet

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2011
Messages
90
Location
brooklyn. wi
There really is no need to resort to law enforcement name calling. Until this incident has been verified the outrage is not justified. Might turn out to be another scam post.

If not, the authorities involved are very much in the wrong.
 

BBlock

New member
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
8
Location
Wisconsin
This happened yesterday (Sunday 12/11/2011). I live in Dane County. The scanner was on from about 12:20PM to 1:40PM. I think the conversation in question occurred just after 12:30PM. I suspect this was a routine stop, but I am not sure. There was some initial confusion and discussion about a legal name change for the person that was involved. My scanner has a lot of frequencies programmed and I did not get a look at which frequency came up when the conversation in question occurred. I think I can export the frequencies and groups to a file. Off the top of my head, the frequencies include: Madison, Sun Prairie, Dane County, Wisconsin State Patrol, a whole bunch of non-PD frequencies, and perhaps others. I don't know anything about FOIA requests, sorry. Is it possible that the dispatcher was referring to something other than CCL status? I would just like to know what a Wisconsin CCL holder should expect if s/he is stopped by a Law Enforcement Officer. Sounds like the answer might not be so simple though.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
And now a lesson in the law of unintended consequences -
Officer Friendly, upon notifying dispatch that he is about to make a stop, listens for but does not hear a "Use Caution - CCW" warning.

No warning, so no need to be extra vigilant, right? Good move, dispatch, you've just lulled Officer Friendly into lowering his guard, and most likely his guard is lowered against someone who Hasn't gone to the trouble of, or someone who is ineligible to obtain a license.
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
My suggestion is that you may have been hearing skip.

A Wisconsin Open Records Request in re - in the matter of - a Concealed Carry License is prohibited by 175.60(12g)3(b)1. I am sure that an open records demand will be refused on those grounds.
 

GlockRDH

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Messages
626
Location
north of the Peoples Republic of Madison
Ive heard that also...not lately, though. Usually its used to refer to an individual who has a history of illegal CCW usage. Or who may have restraining order issued and there is known ownership of firearms. (i know this one TOOOOO well)
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
Usually its used to refer to an individual who has a history of illegal CCW usage. Or who may have restraining order issued and there is known ownership of firearms.
Those records may no longer be legally kept under §175.60(12g)3(b)2 "2. Neither a law enforcement agency nor any of its employees may store or maintain information regarding an individual that was obtained from the department under this subsection based on the individual’s status as a licensee or holder of a certificate card." Illegal CCW can only be determined from the department.
 
Top