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VA Non-Resident Permit question???
- Thread starter Dreamer
- Start date
Concede that you are correct. My bad. We both left out the key element in citing.
If a non-resident applicant is from a state that either has a formal reciprocity agreement with Utah or recognizes the Utah concealed firearm permit, the applicant must hold and provide proof of a current concealed firearm or concealed weapon permit issued by the applicant’s state of residency upon application for the Utah concealed firearm permit. This change will not affect those applicants who reside in a state that does not have formal reciprocity or recognition with Utah, i.e. California, New York, Kansas, etc.
http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/BCINewsletterApril2011.pdf
Wonder if Dreamer may have missed this key distinction or if he prefers a VA non-resident permit for another reason(s).
The reason I asked the question is that he may have some good reason that is not apparent to me or others posting in this thread. If so, I and perhaps we learn something new. Or, perhaps he is considering getting a VA non-resident permit because of some misunderstanding on his part. If so, we have a chance to save him spending a $100 on something he does not need or really want.
Given a reason, there may well be additional and smarter ways to meet the need. For example, those considering doing an online course to meet VA CHP training requirements may read Ed's reply and use MD's free online safety course and save $30 to $40. Or better yet, take ProShooter's course and learn something about carrying in addition to basic safety.
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1245A Defender
Regular Member
well,,,
im surprised nobody has said this,,,
in order to be exempt from the Federal GFSZ law,
You must have a permit issued by The STATE in which the school is located.
im surprised nobody has said this,,,
in order to be exempt from the Federal GFSZ law,
You must have a permit issued by The STATE in which the school is located.
And it's a felony to boot. This bad law pretty much makes a mockery of state permit reciprocity since it's nearly impossible to drive around in any state without entering an area within 1000 feet of a k-12 school. Good thing it's not enforced as a standalone law.
ProShooter
Regular Member
I would be shocked if the NRA involved itself with online firearms safety training after the email that they sent out to all instructors
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TFred
Regular Member
I don't believe that has ever been challenged in court. Despite the opinion issued by an ATF flunky, some people, myself included, believe that a permit that is honored by the state you are in would be sufficient. Of course, I wouldn't want to be the test case, nor would anyone else.
The reasoning for this line of thought is that a permit or a license is not a piece of paper, it's an intangible state of being granted permission to do something. The fact that the laws allow another state's "piece of paper" to suffice for you to carry concealed in that state add up to the conclusion that the home state is still granting the "permission", but it just happens to be based on the qualification check done by another state.
In simpler terms, Virginia IS granting me permission to carry concealed, but rather than having the proof that the background check was done by the local PD, it happened to be done by the government of another state. That other state cannot grant permission for me to carry in Virginia, Virginia has to be the one that does that, and that is what the GFSZ law requires.
Again... not tested, don't wanna.
TFred
swinokur
Activist Member
Some states issue CHP's without a background check so I'd guess they won't have reciprocity with a state that does. Does anyone know of a state that requires a background check but has reciprocity with a state that does not?
Making sense out of reciprocity has eluded me for years. Let's use VA as an example since most here are familiar with it. A VA permit is not honored by either WA or MN; yet, both a WA and MN permit are honored by VA. VA has a training requirement for a permit; yet, VA has a full, formal reciprocity agreement with PA while PA has no permit training requirement at all. I don't have any examples of background check disparity, but based on the disparity associated with other reciprocity factors, reciprocity irrationality appears to be the rule. I would not expect anything different regarding background checks.
They may get so much flack from the NRA instructor community that they decide not to get into the online game any more than they already have with online instructor training. But we all know how much the NRA likes money, so it will be interesting to see what transpires.
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Dreamer
Regular Member
You are correct. When I establish residency in MD officially, I must relinquish my NC permit.
Since I'll no longer be living in NC I won't be there much, so this doesn't really bother me much.
But I DO spend a LOT of time driving around in VA, and if I have a VA permit, I am covered for School Zones in VA. That's the main reason I want a VA card. I don't NEED it--I already have a UT and PA card, which cover me just about everywhere between the two.
And I'll be honest, I'm a bit of a "collector". Being able to say I have THREE permits is cool, and I don't want to go back to only having 2. I'd get a WV one too (because I have family and friends there and travel there frequently too) but WV, like NC, does NOT offer non-resident permits...
Dreamer
Regular Member
And on the other side of the "reciprocity nonsense" coin, let's consider MD.
Maryland DOES NOT require classroom training OR range qualification for an "unrestricted" permit being issued for non-occupational reasons. This puts the MD "unrestricted" permits in a class all by themselves in the mid-Atlantic region--they are the ONLY one in the region that DOESN'T have some sort of classroom or range requirement for proficiency and legal knowledge. The main requirement for a MD permit is that you be wealthy or well-connected, which are "qualifications" that don't hold much water in the "free" states that surround MD...
Sig229
Regular Member
PA doesn't require range time or classes either.
They do however ask for character references which is completely stupid in my opinion.
What about PA? It has no training or range qualification for a permit.
"It is very simple to obtain a Pennsylvania Concealed Carry Permit/License. Just take your Pennsylvania
Drivers License or State ID. Names, Addresses and Phone numbers of two references and your check book
and go to the Sheriff’s Office in the county you reside. Tell them you wish to apply for a Permit/License to
Carry a Concealed Weapon. Fill out the application and pay the fee. PA Code PA Code 18 Pa.C.S. § 6109
states the total for all costs is to be $20. The Sheriff has 45 days to issue the permit/license or deny it."
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf
TFred
Regular Member
Of course not. If you're well connected enough to get a permit, then you well connected enough to get a permit without all the trouble of those pesky training classes and qualification...
Hey, at least their corruption is consistent to the core.
TFred