Real life LE encounter stories from Oklahoma

rpyne said:

While the law might not carry any teeth, it does does give grounds for a civil case against the officer.

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That may be true. However, in 1289 where gun law is preempted by the state and municipalities are barred from charging a person open carrying with disrupting peace, public nuisance, etc. it specifically states that a person who's rights under that section are violated by a municipality or other political subdivision of the state may bring a law suit on the agent, agency, and government entity. There isn't anything like that here.

Owasso, OK - 2 Stories....2 different officers.....2 different reactions

My 2 encounters both happened in Owasso, Ok. The first time I was stopped for speeding. Officer came to my truck window where I immediately showed him my DL and CCL. He reacted by asking if I had the weapon with me. I told him yes and it was under the back seat of my truck within arms reach. He asked what gun did I carry with me. After I answered him, he simply said he had stopped me for going 10 mph over the limit and he gave me a verbal warning and sent me on my way. Very polite and professional.

My 2nd encounter didn't go as well. While traveling down 76th street in Owasso, headed west from 169, I turned left to make a pit stop at McDonalds. I pulled into a parking space and started to get out of my truck and go in. As I got out and turned towards the back of my truck, an Owasso police officer comes flying in and stops right behind me. This young police officer jumps out and yells at me to sit back in my truck. So, startled as I was, I sat back in my truck and left the door open. This guy comes to my door and asked me if I knew what I had just done. I honestly didn't know. I looked at him confused and said,"No. You're going to have to tell me. I'm not sure." He said," You just went through a red light back there." I said," Where?" He pointed at 2 lights back from where we sat and I still looked confused. He said and I quote," You were 2/3 of the way thru the light when it changed to red. You ran a red light!!" I tried to apologize but he cut me short and asked me for my DL. So, I got the DL out along with the CCL. He immediately asked me if I had my gun with me. I replied yes. He asked where it was and I told him where I had it concealed. He then asked me to get it out and show him. I told him I did not feel comfortable doing that and according to the law, I didnt have to. At this point the guy got real agitated and smartelic telling me if I was such a law abiding citizen to have a CCL then I should also know the law about running red lights. Boy, I wanted to be a smartelic right back, but I held back and just sit there while he went back to his car. After a minute he came back and let me go with, yet again, a verbal warning.

I am quite perplexed on the two encounters and how different they were. I took it as 2 encounters, and 2 officers....one very experienced and professional, and one very young and cocky with little experience with people and CCL citizens.

I have had two encounters myself, and both were non-events, and I got no ticket on either.

First I was on my motorcycle on NE23rd and Douglas in MWC. Got stopped for doing a little back-and-forth swerving within my own lane when no other vehicles were near me. Gave officer my DL and CWL along with insurance papers. He then asked if I had a weapon on me, to which I replied " I would not have given you the license if I didn't". He got a little pissy with that, saying I had to verbally tell him I was armed. Guess I was being a smart aleck. Other than that, he told me it was my right, and to have a nice night. Let me go without even a warning.

Second I was cruising west on I-40 in MWC around Sooner Rd at around 0515, no other vehicles anywhere near me. OK Highway Patrol pulls me over for doing 70 in a 60. Give him all the required stuff and tell him verbally I am armed. He asks where the weapon is, I tell him on my right hip. He tells me to remove the weapon, and follow him to his vehicle. Writes me a warning, says have a nice day, and it's done.

Nothing to it. I am from California, and would have never gotten a warning there.

ddillman said:

My 2nd encounter didn't go as well. While traveling down 76th street in Owasso, headed west from 169, I turned left to make a pit stop at McDonalds. I pulled into a parking space and started to get out of my truck and go in. As I got out and turned towards the back of my truck, an Owasso police officer comes flying in and stops right behind me. This young police officer jumps out and yells at me to sit back in my truck. So, startled as I was, I sat back in my truck and left the door open. This guy comes to my door and asked me if I knew what I had just done. I honestly didn't know. I looked at him confused and said,"No. You're going to have to tell me. I'm not sure." He said," You just went through a red light back there." I said," Where?" He pointed at 2 lights back from where we sat and I still looked confused. He said and I quote," You were 2/3 of the way thru the light when it changed to red. You ran a red light!!" I tried to apologize but he cut me short and asked me for my DL. So, I got the DL out along with the CCL. He immediately asked me if I had my gun with me. I replied yes. He asked where it was and I told him where I had it concealed. He then asked me to get it out and show him. I told him I did not feel comfortable doing that and according to the law, I didnt have to. At this point the guy got real agitated and smartelic telling me if I was such a law abiding citizen to have a CCL then I should also know the law about running red lights.

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He needs to take his own advice and learn the law about running red lights. There is no obligation to stop unless the light is actually red. OS 47-11-202.

KBCraig said:

He needs to take his own advice and learn the law about running red lights. There is no obligation to stop unless the light is actually red. OS 47-11-202.

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Absolutely correct. As long as one of your front wheels enters the intersection while the light is still amber, you are good to go. I think some officers just want to strut their stuff a bit too much.

cbxer55 said:

OK Highway Patrol pulls me over for doing 70 in a 60. Give him all the required stuff and tell him verbally I am armed. He asks where the weapon is, I tell him on my right hip. He tells me to remove the weapon, and follow him to his vehicle.

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I think that this is one way an officer could handle this without running afoul of the law. I'm assuming he had you disarm after he headed back to his cruiser?

I've sat in the front seat of a cruiser or three while I was armed, but it was at a crash scene. I wasn't required to notify, but most of the troopers I see regularly know that I go armed because of previous conversations.

okiebryan said:

I think that this is one way an officer could handle this without running afoul of the law. I'm assuming he had you disarm after he headed back to his cruiser?

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Nah! He stood there at my driver's window and watched while I removed the gun, set it on the floor and slid it under the seat. Honestly it did not bother me that he asked me to do that. Every officer out there probably has their own way of handling encounters with those of us who go armed. As long as they do not get pissy about it, it's all good IMHO.

I would not ever be comfortable handling my pistol in the presence of a LEO. Many people here feel the same way. "Officer, I'm not comfortable handling my firearm in your presence. I do not consent to being disarmed, but I will not resist if you choose to disarm me."

Your mileage may vary.

One Cop's opinion

I talked to the ex-chief of police in Hobart he said" I think everyone should carry" Then I asked him about OC and he replied " I think its A good idea" Too bad he is an ex chief and now lives in Ardmore we need more law enforcement like him.

okiebryan said:

I would not ever be comfortable handling my pistol in the presence of a LEO. Many people here feel the same way. "Officer, I'm not comfortable handling my firearm in your presence. I do not consent to being disarmed, but I will not resist if you choose to disarm me."

Your mileage may vary.

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Same here, i went as far as buying a lanyard and have my drivers lic and CCL in it as well as my hunting lic. I dont want to go anywhere near my firearm while being asked for my license. Call me paranoid, Id rather be called that than dead!

Brandon Harwell said:

Same here, i went as far as buying a lanyard and have my drivers lic and CCL in it as well as my hunting lic. I dont want to go anywhere near my firearm while being asked for my license. Call me paranoid, Id rather be called that than dead!

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You're proudly wearing your permission slip around your neck?

Brandon Harwell said:

Same here, i went as far as buying a lanyard and have my drivers lic and CCL in it as well as my hunting lic. I dont want to go anywhere near my firearm while being asked for my license. Call me paranoid, Id rather be called that than dead!

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When stopped, I have my licenses in hand before the officer gets to the window. I do not wait for them to ask me for it. This avoids the situation of reaching for it with the officer watching.

Funny thing, a couple months ago I was returning home from work after midnight. Got pulled over for going a little fast on Douglas while riding my motorcycle. I had to remove thes eat to get my insurance papers, and while doing that one asked if I was armed. I told him "no, I work at Tinker and cannot do so, but other than that I am always armed, and I definitely would have informed you were I armed". He said that was okay, took my papers and ran a check, returned them to me, said "have a nice night, and slow down a bit". No ticket , no warning. Ultra cool!

My point being, do they just do this to find out if you are armed? Or do they now have some system that tells them you are licensed? I thought there was not supposed to be a list of carriers? Thought it was supposed to be a secret thing? I suspect they were just asking to avoid the situation of the folks out there who do not inform them. My ex-neighbor, a Midwest City officer, said there are folks out there who do not inform. How he knows this I do not know.

cbxer55 said:

When stopped, I have my licenses in hand before the officer gets to the window. I do not wait for them to ask me for it. This avoids the situation of reaching for it with the officer watching.

Funny thing, a couple months ago I was returning home from work after midnight. Got pulled over for going a little fast on Douglas while riding my motorcycle. I had to remove thes eat to get my insurance papers, and while doing that one asked if I was armed. I told him "no, I work at Tinker and cannot do so, but other than that I am always armed, and I definitely would have informed you were I armed". He said that was okay, took my papers and ran a check, returned them to me, said "have a nice night, and slow down a bit". No ticket , no warning. Ultra cool!

My point being, do they just do this to find out if you are armed? Or do they now have some system that tells them you are licensed? I thought there was not supposed to be a list of carriers? Thought it was supposed to be a secret thing? I suspect they were just asking to avoid the situation of the folks out there who do not inform them. My ex-neighbor, a Midwest City officer, said there are folks out there who do not inform. How he knows this I do not know.

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Read your law very carefully...here in WA your information is private...EXCEPT...for law enforcement, when they run your DL, they get back that you also have a CPL.

77zach said:

You're proudly wearing your permission slip around your neck?

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Yes. Is that a bad thing?

cbxer55 said:

When stopped, I have my licenses in hand before the officer gets to the window. I do not wait for them to ask me for it. This avoids the situation of reaching for it with the officer watching.

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While in a vehicle i do have my stuff out before he arrives at the window. Im talking about while walking around town or whatever. I dont want to be going for my wallet while barney fife shoots me for "going for my gun". I travel a lot and visit some pretty small towns in Ok. You never know.

Brandon, my CWL is right behind my DL in my billfold, which is in my back pocket right behind my firearm.

How do I handle this? When the officer stops me, I don't dig anything out. I sit still with my hands on the wheel. As soon as he says word one to me, whether "How are you tonight?" or "Do you know why I stopped you?" The 1st words out of my mouth are, "Officer, I am licensed to carry a firearm, and I am currently armed." Then I shut up and let him tell me what to do. It's normally going to be "Where is it?" Which I would answer, "In a retention holster on my right hip." When he asks for my DL, CWL, whatever, I tell him where my billfold is, and that I will need to reach past my firearm to get that, then say "How do you want me to proceed?"

This method will not get you shot. Just make sure that you follow instructions, and that you don't carry a billfold that resembles a handgun. :shocker:

The fact that you are communicating what you are doing ahead of time, and asking for him to approve, shows him that you are safety conscious and that you don't want to do anything that would alarm him. (or her, of course)

Some of the stories I hear are kind of interesting in nature. People who get mad at the police for making contact with them and complaining about them disarming them and so forth. Ill be the first to admit I used to get nervous around police officers but now I just go with the flow. They stop me I am polite to them and so forth. If they ask me to disarm I understand their situation and place of being and I do so without making a big deal. Some dont agree with this and some do.

In the end I found that it just makes a good working relation with the officer and myself to simply talk with them and chat like good old friends. I have been pulled over and the officer asked if he could see my weapon. Ive told him where it was an invited him to look at it and do his duty. In the end I have made good friends with officers by doing so and many of which have even chatted after the fact.

Now I have done some law enforcement work in the past and currently work in the private security field so with these good friends I have made I have compared holsters (Duty and non) and gave good points on which firearms worked best for me and they have done likewise.

Guys and gals just understand some officers are naturally going to be not so pleasant people and it comes with the territory. But most officers are just as concerned about you as you are about them. In the end all law abiding citizens want to go home in the same manner as the officers. And understand their situation as well. We have the option to not tangle with the bad guys. they on the other hand have a duty to uphold and have to go hands on with the bad guys. Most love the open carry because it does place the bad guys at bay and makes the overall safety of the community improve but just like their are knuckle head cops there are also knuckle head Ocers.

And also a pointer from a former LEO. Dont argue with the police. Just request to speak to their supervisor as they are required to contact one upon reasonable request. Explain how you feel and if you cant get satisfaction then simply contact the police on a normal business day and request to file a formal complaint.

Glock 1st fan said:

People who get mad at the police for making contact with them and complaining about them disarming them and so forth. Ill be the first to admit I used to get nervous around police officers but now I just go with the flow. They stop me I am polite to them and so forth. If they ask me to disarm I understand their situation and place of being and I do so without making a big deal. Some dont agree with this and some do.

In the end I found that it just makes a good working relation with the officer and myself to simply talk with them and chat like good old friends. I have been pulled over and the officer asked if he could see my weapon. Ive told him where it was an invited him to look at it and do his duty. In the end I have made good friends with officers by doing so and many of which have even chatted after the fact.

Now I have done some law enforcement work in the past and currently work in the private security field so with these good friends I have made I have compared holsters (Duty and non) and gave good points on which firearms worked best for me and they have done likewise.

Guys and gals just understand some officers are naturally going to be not so pleasant people and it comes with the territory. But most officers are just as concerned about you as you are about them. In the end all law abiding citizens want to go home in the same manner as the officers. And understand their situation as well. We have the option to not tangle with the bad guys. they on the other hand have a duty to uphold and have to go hands on with the bad guys. Most love the open carry because it does place the bad guys at bay and makes the overall safety of the community improve but just like their are knuckle head cops there are also knuckle head Ocers.

And also a pointer from a former LEO. Dont argue with the police. Just request to speak to their supervisor as they are required to contact one upon reasonable request. Explain how you feel and if you cant get satisfaction then simply contact the police on a normal business day and request to file a formal complaint.

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So you are OK with an LEO willfully violating state law?

Title 21 Section 1290.8.B. The person shall be required to have possession of his or her valid handgun license and a valid Oklahoma driver license or an Oklahoma State photo identification at all times when in possession of an authorized pistol. The person shall display the handgun license on demand of a law enforcement officer; provided, however, that in the absence of reasonable and articulable suspicion of other criminal activity, an individual carrying an unconcealed handgun shall not be disarmed or physically restrained unless the individual fails to display a valid handgun license in response to that demand.

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Oh, by the way, a common traffic violation does not rise to the level of "other criminal activity", it's a violation.

Glock 1st fan said:

Some of the stories I hear are kind of interesting in nature. People who get mad at the police for making contact with them and complaining about them disarming them and so forth. Ill be the first to admit I used to get nervous around police officers but now I just go with the flow. They stop me I am polite to them and so forth. If they ask me to disarm I understand their situation and place of being and I do so without making a big deal. Some dont agree with this and some do.

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The whole issue of disarming someone "for officer safety" is a big bone of contention. I know I am not a BG out looking for the first chance to shoot a cop, but the cop might not know that. But automatically disarming me, when there are other ways the cop can go about his/her job while reducing the threat, is insulting to both of us.

In the end I found that it just makes a good working relation with the officer and myself to simply talk with them and chat like good old friends. I have been pulled over and the officer asked if he could see my weapon. Ive told him where it was an invited him to look at it and do his duty. In the end I have made good friends with officers by doing so and many of which have even chatted after the fact.

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If a cop stops you it is most likely not because they wanted to catch up on how Aunt Matilda's rheumatism is, or to exchange cookie receipts or to compare the virtues and faults of holsters. They may in fact discuss those matters, but it is not their focus of attention - they are using the time to do "cop things" like look to see if they can spot a crime being committed or to see if you will admit to a crime they have not yet discovered on their own. That's just what cops do - in big cities and in small towns.

Now I have done some law enforcement work in the past and currently work in the private security field so with these good friends I have made I have compared holsters (Duty and non) and gave good points on which firearms worked best for me and they have done likewise.

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Same here. But not in the middle of some roadside stop for an alleged traffic offense, let alone an investigation of actual/suspected criminal activity. That is, among other things, what donut shops are for. My good friend who is a cop stopped being my good friend when he turned on the light bar.

Guys and gals just understand some officers are naturally going to be not so pleasant people and it comes with the territory. But most officers are just as concerned about you as you are about them. In the end all law abiding citizens want to go home in the same manner as the officers. And understand their situation as well. We have the option to not tangle with the bad guys. they on the other hand have a duty to uphold and have to go hands on with the bad guys. Most love the open carry because it does place the bad guys at bay and makes the overall safety of the community improve but just like their are knuckle head cops there are also knuckle head Ocers.

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The cops you know are significantly different from the cops most folks encounter. About the only thing I can agree with is that some cops have an attitude, but I disagree about it "coming with the territory". Cops are much more concerned about me than I am about them - I am pterrry sure that I am going to remain law-abiding and polite even when stopped for something I disagree with, while cops seem to think everybody is John Dillenger even when proved otherwise. Very few cops that I have encountered "love the open carry because it does place the bad guys at bay and makes the overall safety of the community improve" - a lot of them tolerate it because that is the law, but most of them are opposed to us doing anything that even remotely smacks of vigilantism, such as confronting a BG who is BG-ing a third party. Few cops see OC as a deterrent to crime in general but may conceed that it might make the BG select someone else to be the victim du jour.

And also a pointer from a former LEO. Dont argue with the police. Just request to speak to their supervisor as they are required to contact one upon reasonable request. Explain how you feel and if you cant get satisfaction then simply contact the police on a normal business day and request to file a formal complaint.

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Oh, my goodness! Someone who thinks that a cop is going to put everything on hold so a supervisor can be found, travel to the scene, listen to both sides, and decide what really should have happened! If you are lucky the cop will talk with the supervisor (by phone so there will be no record of the conversation). But you getting to talk with that supervisor? Not unless you travel to the station, after the incident, and wait for them to become un-busy.

I am opposed to "request[ing] to file a formal complaint". I prefer that the individual insist on filing a formal complainrt - as in "I do not need your permission to do this, and yes, you are required to accept and process it." You may have been merely using a polite, PC type of phrasing when you wrote "request" but it is better to eliminate any doubt about filing a complaint being a right as opposed to some sort of privilege.

stay safe.

Brandon Harwell said:

Yes. Is that a bad thing?

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Well, it's not something I'd do, but I wouldn't go so far to call it bad. It's like kids these days in the government schools (even high schools) sometimes have to wear hall passes or bathroom passes around their necks to go to the bathroom. It's just kind of slavish. Here in the Fl, they tried to make display of one's permission slip a requirement for OC.

Just wanted to post this for those out there that read the forum religiously.....I have 2 friends that are LE in Skiatook. These guys are very good, professional men. Real stand up kinda guys. These two are far from what some of you call "Barney Fife". I recently talked to both of them on separate occasions and got the same response from the open carry law.

They both feel it is every law abiding citizens right to own guns. And with the proper license, a citizen has every right to carry a concealed weapon "about their person". They both have yet to run across a Skiatook (or from anywhere else) citizen carrying a gun on their hip. When asked about the open carry they don't have a problem with it, that is, until they run across "an idiot" and he is open carrying his weapon AND IS CAUSING A PROBLEM SOMEHOW. Then, that may change their mind. They both don't necessarily see the need for OC. They think what it's better use is when someone is CCing and something happens and the gun becomes visible it is not an issue.