University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee official policy

I'm a student @ UWM and just received an email that I've been expecting for a while, thought I'd share it with everybody:

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October 27, 2011


To: UWM Faculty, Staff and Students

The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee is committed to maintaining a safe
campus environment and to ensuring that it acts to the extent possible
to shield its students and employees from harm. As the result of recent
state legislation (2011 Wisconsin Act 35), UWM has developed the
Firearms and Dangerous Weapons Policy, which explains how Act 35 will be
implemented at UWM. According to the UWM policy:

1. Firearms and dangerous weapons are prohibited from all UWM buildings,
including residence halls. This restriction applies to all individuals
except law enforcement. Signs declaring this prohibition are being
installed at entrances to all buildings.

2. Firearms are banned in outdoor spaces within 1,000 feet of Hartford
Elementary School (this area covers most of the outdoor spaces on the
UWM East Side campus) except for handguns carried in a concealed manner
by concealed weapon license holders.

3. Firearms and dangerous weapons are banned at UWM special events where
admission is restricted.

4. Firearms and dangerous weapons are banned in UWM-owned or -controlled
vehicles, such as UWM shuttles and fleet vehicles.

5. Employees of UWM, with the exception of university law enforcement
officials, are prohibited from carrying firearms or other dangerous
weapons while engaged in any employment activity on behalf of UWM,
whether on or off campus.

Additional details about these issues -– including answers to frequently
asked questions and limited exceptions to the policy -– are available in
the Firearms and Dangerous Weapons Policy, which is online at

https://www4.uwm.edu/secu/docs/other/S24.5.pdf

Any questions not answered by the policy or the posted FAQs should be
directed to the UWM Police Department:

uwm-police@uwm.edu

I'm sure that policy will stay long when someone gets robbed, assaulted, raped, or murdered.

Woah, just a quick question. #2 says guns are banned within a 1000 feet of a school except when licensed and carried in a concealed manner. Does that mean you can only carry concealed within the magic 1000 ft bubble? You can't open carry with a license?

TaurusToter said:

Woah, just a quick question. #2 says guns are banned within a 1000 feet of a school except when licensed and carried in a concealed manner. Does that mean you can only carry concealed within the magic 1000 ft bubble? You can't open carry with a license?

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Typical lies/misinformation. You can [legally] open or conceal within 1000' of a school as long as you have a permit.

That's what I thought, but started to wonder when I read that. Wonder how many tickets/fines/lawsuits that email will generate

Let's just remember this rule. In WI, if you can carry concealed, you can carry open as well.

The permit is NOT only a concealed carry permit but also expands the places one can oc as well.

+ 1

All the statutes involved in CCW issues, allow exceptions, or special opportunities to people who are "licensees" or "out-of-state licensees". They do not provide special treatment for having the weapon itself concealed.

Here is the email I got back.

Paul-

Thank you for your email.

UWS 18 of Wisconsin Administrative Code (Conduct on University Lands) bans all open carry of firearms and dangerous weapons on university lands. There is nothing in the new law that overturns UWS 18 as to open carry, including as to CCW permit holders on university lands. Thus, UWM will continue to enforce UWS 18 as to open carry of firearms and dangerous weapons.










Michael J. Marzion
Chief of Police

University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Police Department
P.O. Box 413
Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201

The mission of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Police Department
is to provide a safe and secure environment in which to learn, live and work.

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Actually, the new law doesn't state that the firearm must be concealed.

943.13(1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
.....
2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a part of a building, grounds, or land occupied by the state or by a local governmental unit, to a privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, or to the grounds of or land owned or occupied by a university or college, or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of a building, grounds, or land used as a parking facility.


The DOJ "FAQ" says a permit holder can carry a concealed weapon on university grounds. However, the law itself does NOT say the weapon has to be concealed. The DOJ FAQ is not the law. So in actuality, pre-emption voids UWS 18 since that rule would be more restrictive than the law of ACT 35.

bmwguy11 said:

Actually, the new law doesn't state that the firearm must be concealed.

943.13(1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
.....
2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a part of a building, grounds, or land occupied by the state or by a local governmental unit, to a privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, or to the grounds of or land owned or occupied by a university or college, or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of a building, grounds, or land used as a parking facility.


The DOJ "FAQ" says a permit holder can carry a concealed weapon on university grounds. However, the law itself does NOT say the weapon has to be concealed. The DOJ FAQ is not the law. So in actuality, pre-emption voids UWS 18 since that rule would be more restrictive than the law of ACT 35.

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Someone else pointed this out. Preemption doesn't apply to universities, 66.0409(1)(b) says: ""Political subdivision" means a city, village, town or county."

Also I can't find anywhere in UWS 18 where it talks about openly carrying a firearm.

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/rsb/code/uws/uws018.pdf

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

Someone else pointed this out. Preemption doesn't apply to universities, 66.0409(1)(b) says: ""Political subdivision" means a city, village, town or county."

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So I'm confused then. If state law says that they can't ban weapons on university grounds, but yet they can ban open carry because preemption doesn't apply to them, then why can't they just ban weapons altogether? If their administrative code allows them to write their own rules, then why can't they just ban all firearms anyways?

Logic would indicate that if they can't ban concealed carry, they also cannot ban open carry. It would be all or nothing, since the new ACT 35 doesn't specify that the weapon has to be concealed.

protias said:

I'm sure that policy will stay long when someone gets robbed, assaulted, raped, or murdered.

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that already happens on uw milwakee my best freind from high school went there and he said people were getting robbed and or assaulted weekly

oliverclotheshoff said:

that already happens on uw milwakee my best freind from high school went there and he said people were getting robbed and or assaulted weekly

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Yes, but now they can be held liable because they are posting signs.

bmwguy11 said:

Also I can't find anywhere in UWS 18 where it talks about openly carrying a firearm.

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/rsb/code/uws/uws018.pdf

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I did some searching

UWS18.10 Offenses against Public Safety

(3) DANGEROUS WEAPONS. (a) No person may carry, possess
or use any dangerous weapon on university lands or in university
buildings or facilities, except with the written approval of the chief
administrative officer or for law enforcement purposes.
(b) No person may display or portray as real any object that
resembles a dangerous weapon on university lands or in university
buildings or facilities, except with the written approval of the
chief administrative officer.
(c) Dangerous weapons in violation of this subsection may be
confiscated and removed from university lands by police.
(d) In this subsection, the term “dangerous weapon” has the
meaning specified in s. 939.22 (10), Stats.

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UWS18.11 Offenses against public peace and order.

(7)(b) No person who is convicted of any crime involving danger to property or persons as a result of conduct by him or her on university lands may enter any university lands within 2 years of the effective date of his or her conviction without the written consent of the chief administrative officer
...
(7)(f) For the purposes of s. 36.35 (3), Stats., and par. (b), “crime involving danger to property or persons” shall mean any crime defined in ...
941.23 Carrying a Concealed Weapon
941.235 Carrying firearm in state or political subdivision building
941.29 Illegal possession of a firearm (criminal or mental history)...

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Here is the pertinent area of the Wisconsin statutes, effective Nov. 1, 2011, which overlap the above subsections of Administrative Rules UWS18.10.

The below statute subsections and paragraphs, are clear in what areas can be prohibited to firearms carry, thru notification and signage, but I am not sure that they spell out what areas we must be allowed to enter while carrying firearms. That may be assumed as a function of Article 1 Section 25. I don't know.

943.13 Trespass to land.

943.13 (1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
...
943.13(1m)(c)5. Enters or remains in any privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, if the university or college has notified the actor not to enter or remain in the building while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a person who leases residential or business premises in the building or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of the building used as a parking facility.

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I took some pictures of the signs they're posting everywhere. Including the black border on the signs, they're just slightly over 5x7.

E6chevron said:

I did some searching





Here is the pertinent area of the Wisconsin statutes, effective Nov. 1, 2011, which overlap the above subsections of Administrative Rules UWS18.10.

The below statute subsections and paragraphs, are clear in what areas can be prohibited to firearms carry, thru notification and signage, but I am not sure that they spell out what areas we must be allowed to enter while carrying firearms. That may be assumed as a function of Article 1 Section 25. I don't know.

Click to expand...

It's in the new law, same place you were in, just a different sub section:

943.13(1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
.....
2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a part of a building, grounds, or land occupied by the state or by a local governmental unit, to a privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, or to the grounds of or land owned or occupied by a university or college, or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of a building, grounds, or land used as a parking facility.

So we need to add that University rule to the list of things that need changing.

UWM admin idiots said:

The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee is committed to maintaining a safe campus environment and to ensuring that it acts to the extent possible to shield its students and employees from harm.

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Obviously not, or they'd pay attention to the massacres that have happened at colleges & universities across the country, ALL in "(legal) gun-free zones".

2. Firearms are banned in outdoor spaces within 1,000 feet of Hartford Elementary School (this area covers most of the outdoor spaces on the UWM East Side campus) except for handguns carried in a concealed manner by concealed weapon license holders.

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Almost right. Strike "in a concealed manner".
I'm almost tempted to organize a protest to make a point.
Maybe a nice lunch picnic in the plaza, or by the fountain.
Almost.

protias said:

Typical lies/misinformation. You can [legally] open or conceal within 1000' of a school as long as you have a permit.

Click to expand...

What he said.

4. Firearms and dangerous weapons are banned in UWM-owned or -controlled vehicles, such as UWM shuttles and fleet vehicles.

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They can't do that, at least for the shuttles. Have to re-read the law about company-owned vehicles.

5. Employees of UWM, with the exception of university law enforcement officials, are prohibited from carrying firearms or other dangerous weapons while engaged in any employment activity on behalf of UWM, whether on or off campus.

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Unless they're in their own vehicle. Forgot that part.
Looks like an opportunity for another chapter of SCCC.

If you people do not like their policy, stay away. MY OPINION

I think you guys are forgetting that Universities can make up all of their own rules. Such as: requiring a permit to draw on the sidewalks with chalk, requiring all students to carry their student ID at all times (and surrender it when asked for), etc etc.

The concealed only within 1000ft of the school is no different than the rest of these rules: ridiculous, but they're free to make them.