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I think it's time to have a serious discusiion....

UnfetteredMight

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
222
Location
Kentucky
...about the lack of armed personal in our schools. As a 2A advocate and even more so as a parent of two young children, I am sick and tired of "free kill zones" even existing. Had one, just ONE person been armed Friday at that school, with the right opportunity and a little marksmanship the majority of the tragedy could have been averted. What do you think would have happened if every teacher had been armed? What do you think would happen with these mass shootings if it became common knowledge that the staff are heavily armed and trained?

Now the GFZ is bypassed by an individual having a permit. Ok so the federal law isn't stopping us. The KRS is written in such a manner than an individual can bring a firearm on the premises with permission, so the currently written law isn't stopping us.

I want to know from those here that are closest to the legislative body, what kind of traction do you think that we could get with a law allowing weapons in our schools by personal only?

What does everyone else think about this?
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
...about the lack of armed personal in our schools. As a 2A advocate and even more so as a parent of two young children, I am sick and tired of "free kill zones" even existing. Had one, just ONE person been armed Friday at that school, with the right opportunity and a little marksmanship the majority of the tragedy could have been averted. What do you think would have happened if every teacher had been armed? What do you think would happen with these mass shootings if it became common knowledge that the staff are heavily armed and trained?

Now the GFZ is bypassed by an individual having a permit. Ok so the federal law isn't stopping us. The KRS is written in such a manner than an individual can bring a firearm on the premises with permission, so the currently written law isn't stopping us.

I want to know from those here that are closest to the legislative body, what kind of traction do you think that we could get with a law allowing weapons in our schools by personal only?

What does everyone else think about this?

I think this shooting will be the one the kills our gun rights. Obama said that it's time for leaders to take "meaningful action". You wanna take a guess on what his "meaningful action" is?
 

Sundiver

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
81
Location
Somerset
I think this shooting will be the one the kills our gun rights. Obama said that it's time for leaders to take "meaningful action". You wanna take a guess on what his "meaningful action" is?

I'd have to agree with both of you. I made the comparison to teachers and pilots in another thread. Before 9/11 if a commercial pilot had been caught with a pistol in the cockpit he'd be doing federal time. Now? It's considered sound policy. It's time to start getting people into the same mindset with the educators of our children.

You can put a pistol box in every classroom. Biometrically secured with a gun lock on the pistol inside. It stays there until the teacher hears gunshots. There are always options and ways of doing things.
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
I'd have to agree with both of you. I made the comparison to teachers and pilots in another thread. Before 9/11 if a commercial pilot had been caught with a pistol in the cockpit he'd be doing federal time. Now? It's considered sound policy. It's time to start getting people into the same mindset with the educators of our children.

You can put a pistol box in every classroom. Biometrically secured with a gun lock on the pistol inside. It stays there until the teacher hears gunshots. There are always options and ways of doing things.

After every shooting emotions are high. But unlike a mall shooting where 30, 40 or 50 year old's was killed, emotions for this shooting are going to be extremely high due to the fact that it was 5 and 6 year old's. The gun grabbers are not going to waste this tragedy to promote their agenda. I share your idea that a secure gun in the classroom would be the best course of action, but that idea requires open minds. Needless to say America often isn't guilty of having an open mind.
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
Fortunately, I am speaking of making this a reality in Kentucky, not all of America.

But isn't the "gun free school zone" a federal thing? Could KY law allow for "proper" guns on school property? I'll agree that KY has some damn fine laws in regards to guns and self defense in general, but even though this may be a hard sell. Even if it does make a ton of sense. I hope I'm wrong but I look for some bad laws to be passed in the future because of this shooting.
 

UnfetteredMight

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
222
Location
Kentucky
But isn't the "gun free school zone" a federal thing? Could KY law allow for "proper" guns on school property? I'll agree that KY has some damn fine laws in regards to guns and self defense in general, but even though this may be a hard sell. Even if it does make a ton of sense. I hope I'm wrong but I look for some bad laws to be passed in the future because of this shooting.

Yes, it's part of the Brady Bill. However you are exempted from the GFZ in a particular state if you have a carry permit from that state, then it's up to the state law.
 

Sundiver

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
81
Location
Somerset
Yes, it's part of the Brady Bill. However you are exempted from the GFZ in a particular state if you have a carry permit from that state, then it's up to the state law.

The devil will be in the details. What do you do with teachers who refuse on moral or religious grounds? Ideally you'd like to say, find another occupation if you're unwilling to defend your students but in reality it'd never fly.
 

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
You can put a pistol box in every classroom. Biometrically secured with a gun lock on the pistol inside. It stays there until the teacher hears gunshots. There are always options and ways of doing things.

Interesting idea.
How many classrooms are there in Kentucky? Got any estimate?

How many teachers?
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
The devil will be in the details. What do you do with teachers who refuse on moral or religious grounds? Ideally you'd like to say, find another occupation if you're unwilling to defend your students but in reality it'd never fly.

I say that you would handle those teachers like you would any other LAC. You don't have to carry but you now have the option if you so choose to do so.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
I think this shooting will be the one the kills our gun rights. Obama said that it's time for leaders to take "meaningful action". You wanna take a guess on what his "meaningful action" is?

Lack of events has not been what has stopped Obama, he had the votes in the first two years in office. What is stopping him is SCOTUS. Once Scalia takes retirement we will have problems.
 

Sundiver

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
81
Location
Somerset
I say that you would handle those teachers like you would any other LAC. You don't have to carry but you now have the option if you so choose to do so.
Oh, I know. Just playing DA here, you know you'll have parents squalling about how they don't want their children in a classroom with a firearm present. Teachers who choose to go through the process and have a firearm in the their classroom being stigmatized not only by parents but other teachers. Then you have the private school and Christian schools. Like I said just thinking aloud as it were about the problems, I realize we can't reach them all.

On an ironic note in 1984 I was involved in one of the first "modern" school shootings in Richland Hills Texas when Barry Shaw opened fire. He had shown several of us kids all the weapons in his trunk a few days before. We'd reported it to the administration along with problems we'd had with him before threats and such, he'd just murdered a man in Dallas not long before. They blew it all off, I hope things have changed since then.
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
Lack of events has not been what has stopped Obama, he had the votes in the first two years in office. What is stopping him is SCOTUS. Once Scalia takes retirement we will have problems.

You have a point but one day all of the anti's ducks are gonna line up in a nice, neat row for them. I see trouble on the way. I can't help but to feel that our rights are in more danger now than they have ever been. Right now lot's of fear, emotion and anger are in the air. I guess time will tell.
 

Sundiver

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
81
Location
Somerset
You have a point but one day all of the anti's ducks are gonna line up in a nice, neat row for them. I see trouble on the way. I can't help but to feel that our rights are in more danger now than they have ever been. Right now lot's of fear, emotion and anger are in the air. I guess time will tell.

Maybe we need to get back to the basics of educating people what 2A is really about, as a check and balance against the power of a tyranical government, which IMO is something the government should never be able to touch simply as a conflict of interest.
 

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
Maybe we need to get back to the basics of educating people what 2A is really about, as a check and balance against the power of a tyranical government, which IMO is something the government should never be able to touch simply as a conflict of interest.

We do try to educate as much as we can but some folks won't hear of it. Nonetheless we should still try. If we try to educate 1000 people and only one listens, that's at least 1. When you start talking about fighting a tyrannical Government some label you as a "paranoid nut job" and your argument is over even before it gets started. Just check out a conversation that I had with a guy last night.


https://www.facebook.com/lou.zehnde...21?comment_id=37773060&ref=notif&notif_t=like

They always have a come back even if it is based on nothing!
 

KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
Right now we need to leave rights out of the discussion, and speak strictly about the facts.

The FACT is that the children's blood is on the hands of the anti-gunners and legislators who support this type of legislation! This leaves our children defenseless, and they asked for it!

The fact is that Congress passed the FGFSZ because it was deemed necessary to stop gun-violence in schools; the truth is that gun-violence in schools has drastically increased since the inception of this law. The arguments for the law have been proven baseless and plain wrong! This law has the opposite effect than what was intended.

We need for people to look at the facts and statistics, and we also need to challenge the effectiveness and constitutionality of this statute in the system. This law has NOT accomplished what Congress has stated it would in the statute itself (18 USC 922). This law is stripping our educators and children of their right to life and liberty. This law is killing people!

The Federal Government has no business restricting the Second Amendment in any way, especially not in a way that is harmful to the public and our children, which the FGFSZ certainly is.

Here is why Congress passed this into law, and I believe we all realize how all of these claims are absurd:

(1)The Congress finds and declares that—

(A)crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;

(B)crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;

(C)firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary [3] the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;

(D)in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;

(E)while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;

(F)the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;

(G)this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;

(H)States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves—even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and

(I)the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation’s schools by enactment of this subsection.

-----------------------------------------------------------

They claim that state's cannot control gun-violence, education is poor because of guns, crime involving guns is a serious problem, and on and on.

Gun-violence has steadily dropped over the past years, so this claim cannot be verified, as the "serious problem" is really not a problem when compared with other criminal acts. Look at the numbers.

They say state's cannot control gun-violence. This is absurd! The only states that have problems controlling gun-violence are the ones that heavily restrict law-abiding citizens' right to keep and bear firearms. New York City, Chicago and Washington D.C. are responsible for nearly 20% of the entire country's murders. I believe this speaks for itself.

They claim education is becoming inadequate because of guns! This is ridiculous! This statute has allowed gun-violence in K-12 schools to heavily increase because nobody is able to defend themselves. This along with state laws across the country have made K-12 schools killing fields where a shooter knows he will be facing unarmed human targets!

When a statute claims to accomplish one thing and leads to the exact opposite happening it needs to be revisited!

I am tired of our children dying because the government wants to restrict law-abiding citizens right to keep and bear firearms!

The liberal's don't care about the actual violence, they just care about pushing their agenda! One of the biggest liberals in the country proudly said "You never want a serious crisis to go to WASTE!" This is their mentality! They know they cannot convince the American populace to agree with their radical agenda when they are thinking clearly, so they work on their raw emotion immediately after a violent, tragic incident! This is shameful and pathetic!

Bottom line is the FGFSZ has allowed school gun-violence to DRASTICALLY increase by making all victims unarmed and defenseless! We need to recind this statute and the Kentucky statute immediately, so our children don't have to depend on the police who are minutes away and usually won't enter until a SWAT team has been called to the scene! They should be given the respect and care they deserve, and they should know someone is close that is capable of defending them against these tragic incidents! Until these GFZ laws are rescinded they will continue to be easy targets for psychopaths bent on killing them, and that is ridiculously insidious!
 
Last edited:

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
Right now we need to leave rights out of the discussion, and speak strictly about the facts.

The FACT is that the children's blood is on the hands of the anti-gunners and legislators who support this type of legislation! This leaves our children defenseless, and they asked for it!

The fact is that Congress passed the FGFSZ because it was deemed necessary to stop gun-violence in schools; the truth is that gun-violence in schools has drastically increased since the inception of this law. The arguments for the law have been proven baseless and plain wrong! This law has the opposite effect than what was intended.

We need for people to look at the facts and statistics, and we also need to challenge the effectiveness and constitutionality of this statute in the system. This law has NOT accomplished what Congress has stated it would in the statute itself (18 USC 922). This law is stripping our educators and children of their right to life and liberty. This law is killing people!

The Federal Government has no business restricting the Second Amendment in any way, especially not in a way that is harmful to the public and our children, which the FGFSZ certainly is.

Here is why Congress passed this into law, and I believe we all realize how all of these claims are absurd:

(1)The Congress finds and declares that—

(A)crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;

(B)crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;

(C)firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary [3] the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;

(D)in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;

(E)while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;

(F)the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;

(G)this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;

(H)States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves—even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and

(I)the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation’s schools by enactment of this subsection.

-----------------------------------------------------------

They claim that state's cannot control gun-violence, education is poor because of guns, crime involving guns is a serious problem, and on and on.

Gun-violence has steadily dropped over the past years, so this claim cannot be verified, as the "serious problem" is really not a problem when compared with other criminal acts. Look at the numbers.

They say state's cannot control gun-violence. This is absurd! The only states that have problems controlling gun-violence are the ones that heavily restrict law-abiding citizens' right to keep and bear firearms. New York City, Chicago and Washington D.C. are responsible for nearly 20% of the entire country's murders. I believe this speaks for itself.

They claim education is becoming inadequate because of guns! This is ridiculous! This statute has allowed gun-violence in K-12 schools to heavily increase because nobody is able to defend themselves. This along with state laws across the country have made K-12 schools killing fields where a shooter knows he will be facing unarmed human targets!

When a statute claims to accomplish one thing and leads to the exact opposite happening it needs to be revisited!

I am tired of our children dying because the government wants to restrict law-abiding citizens right to keep and bear firearms!

The liberal's don't care about the actual violence, they just care about pushing their agenda! One of the biggest liberals in the country proudly said "You never want a serious crisis to go to WASTE!" This is their mentality! They know they cannot convince the American populace to agree with their radical agenda when they are thinking clearly, so they work on their raw emotion immediately after a violent, tragic incident! This is shameful and pathetic!

Bottom line is the FGFSZ has allowed school gun-violence to DRASTICALLY increase by making all victims unarmed and defenseless! We need to recind this statute and the Kentucky statute immediately, so our children don't have to depend on the police who are minutes away and usually won't enter until a SWAT team has been called to the scene! They should be given the respect and care they deserve, and they should know someone is close that is capable of defending them against these tragic incidents! Until these GFZ laws are rescinded they will continue to be easy targets for psychopaths bent on killing them, and that is ridiculously insidious!
Here's a problem

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gun-control-debate-erupts-twitter-195914529.html

I'm afraid to say but I don't think they will want to listen to any facts. They are more focused on a "feel good" measure instead. Facts are their enemy.
 

KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
Here's a problem

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gun-control-debate-erupts-twitter-195914529.html

I'm afraid to say but I don't think they will want to listen to any facts. They are more focused on a "feel good" measure instead. Facts are their enemy.

I have been encouraged by the comments people are making on some of YahooNews' stories. The majority of people understand the truth of the matter and have an open-mind. They realize that words on paper do NOTHING to stop a crime from happening.

Some people are too ignorant to understand the truth or have been brain-washed to the point they can't think for themselves any longer. I'm not worried about any more harmful legislation getting through Congress at the moment, but what I am afraid of is Obama completely disregarding the Constitution as he has numerous times and trying to legislate by way of Executive Fiat!
 
Last edited:

self preservation

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
I have been encouraged by the comments people are making on some of YahooNews' stories. The majority of people understand the truth of the matter and have an open-mind. They realize that words on paper do NOTHING to stop a crime from happening.

Some people are too ignorant to understand the truth or have been brain-washed to the point they can't think for themselves any longer. I'm not worried about any more harmful legislation getting through Congress at the moment, but what I am afraid of is Obama completely disregarding the Constitution as he has numerous times and trying to legislate by way of Executive Fiat!

I have seem some good comments too. And right at this moment is the time to mourn this unspeakable act. But I can't help to feel deep down in my gut that this incident will f**k us all when it's said and done. I hope I'm wrong. Here is a good article from a NYPD Detective. Just wish the rest of the world felt this way. http://www.therightscoop.com/nypd-detective-we-need-to-repeal-gun-free-school-zones/
 

tattedupboy

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
518
Location
Gary, Indiana, USA
Guns in the classroom would be a huge liability risk for school corporations, and for that reason alone, I'd be surprised if we ever saw them.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
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