"Open Concealed Carry" -- I Don't Get It??

kootsoup · Jul 22, 2010

I have been OC since I moved here from Michigan a couple months ago and I have yet to see anyone else OC'ing?.?.?. We must be a small percentage of the population but I would be excited if I saw anyone else

I have coffee everyday at a Starbucks at 9am. Almost everyday I see a group of about 5 folks that meet there and they are all "concealed carrying" but do it in a ridiculous manner. They have full size pistols and ALL simply wear a thin button down shirt over their sidearm that is not buttoned so you can CLEARLY see they are carrying.. Not just printing, but CLEARLY see that under the thin shirt is a pistol. I dont get it??? why not just OC??

I was wondering, won't they get a hard time by an officer if they're doing such a terrible job at concealing? Also, doesn't the CCW describe what concealed is?

Don't get me wrong I fully support CC if that's what you prefer, but what is the point if they carry that way?

Vegassteve · Jul 22, 2010

OC but have only seen one other fellow at a breakfast joint. Well all the gun shop guys do to. Anyway yes I think we are a very small group. Fellas that CC like the ones you describe are, more than us who OC, really show offs I think. They want to carry but dont want to fully expose yet want people to see they carry.

Also no where on our CCW card is there a way to CC. And the law just defines that in NV it is not hidden from view. And that law mostly is about CC without a permit.

Felid`Maximus · Jul 22, 2010

If they want to wear the cover garment because they like wearing the garment then what they are doing seems reasonable. If they think they are concealed, yet you can easily see the gun maybe they are mistaken or maybe they just want to reduce the number of people that notice. If they wear the garment even though they'd rather not be wearing it, perhaps they don't understand the law.

I don't see though how poorly concealed is more showy than totally unconcealed.

wrightme · Jul 22, 2010

kootsoup said:
I have been OC since I moved here from Michigan a couple months ago and I have yet to see anyone else OC'ing?.?.?. We must be a small percentage of the population but I would be excited if I saw anyone else

I have coffee everyday at a Starbucks at 9am. Almost everyday I see a group of about 5 folks that meet there and they are all "concealed carrying" but do it in a ridiculous manner. They have full size pistols and ALL simply wear a thin button down shirt over their sidearm that is not buttoned so you can CLEARLY see they are carrying.. Not just printing, but CLEARLY see that under the thin shirt is a pistol. I dont get it??? why not just OC??

I was wondering, won't they get a hard time by an officer if they're doing such a terrible job at concealing? Also, doesn't the CCW describe what concealed is?

Don't get me wrong I fully support CC if that's what you prefer, but what is the point if they carry that way?

NV has no specification for "concealed." Nor is there a requirement to conceal if you do have a permit.

28kfps · Jul 23, 2010

I have never seen anyone else open carry when I have been out in Las Vegas either. Kind of feel like a lone wolf most of the time. I, as I am sure most open carry I see here, a dam proud lone wolf exercising my 2A right while educating the public. Here in Pahrump is a different story. See them every so often in Wal-Mart. A few week ago I was open carrying in the Pahrump Smiths store saw another open carried firearm went out to the Smith after shopping and saw another open carried firearm getting gas at the same time as I. Saw another person carrying one about two weeks ago in the Home depot here in Pahrump.

varminter22 · Jul 23, 2010

wrightme said:
NV has no specification for "concealed." Nor is there a requirement to conceal if you do have a permit.

True!

The definition of a concealed firearm is "undetectable by ordinary observation."

But there is no legal requirement specified in NRS Ch 202 for CCW permit holders to keep their firearm(s) concealed. We only have law prohibiting concealed carry without a permit.

I opine that a discernible carried firearm falls under "open carry" - for which we have no law (other than Article 1, Section 11 of the Nevada Consitution), therefore it is lawful where not otherwise prohibited.

That is nowhere close to being a legal opinion - but it is mine! Ha.

wrightme · Jul 23, 2010

wrightme said:
NV has no specification for "concealed." Nor is there a requirement to conceal if you do have a permit.

And let me qualify this statement as follows:

For the purposes of a CCW permit, NV has no specification for "concealed."

kootsoup · Jul 23, 2010

Yeah that makes sense.. I suppose just having the CCW just gives you more options then.

wrightme · Jul 23, 2010

kootsoup said:
Yeah that makes sense.. I suppose just having the CCW just gives you more options then.

Yes, it does. And at least in NorNev, OC in the middle of winter is challenging, to say the least.

chrsjhnsn · Jul 23, 2010

I like to conceal that way

open carry is legal so "barely concealed" is legal too if you have a ccw.
ppl really,really do not notice-even cops don't notice.
The only ones who notice are other gunnies.

I like carrying that way because its concealed enough to not draw attention and just about as quick to get in an emergency as concealed. ETA I meant OC

I'm gonna have to get used to OC though because it takes months for the requal to come thru for my ccw.
I oc all the time in the small rural town I visit but not in Reno/fernley yet

VegasGeorge · Jul 24, 2010

People tend to think of the difference between OC and CC as a legal or tactical issue. Of course it is a legal issue to the extent that a permit is required for CC. However, in my experience the difference between OC and CC is much more mundane than that. Really hot weather makes CC difficult and uncomfortable. Truly light weight clothing is just not designed to conceal anything. On the other hand, OC in the winter with coats and sweaters used everyday is darn hard. If you strap on a roscoe then throw a coat over it, you're carrying concealed and need a permit. Take the coat off and you're OC. This is why I think the whole OC CC law ought to be abolished. Particularly in States that already allow OC. Why should a permit be required just because you put on a coat? That's really stupid.

chrsjhnsn · Jul 24, 2010

amen to that Vgeorge!

amen to that Vgeorge!

flagellum · Jul 25, 2010

I'm actaully carrying that way right now. Have my fullsize XD(m)[X-box huge] under my T-shirt (size small, slim-fit). However I'm sure to 99.9% of people its concealed. I'm in a casino/club right now and no one has taken any notice whatsoever. Security nor my party.

gunrunner1911 · Jul 30, 2010

For most who carry a gun it is CC from 97% of the population simply because there "ordinary observations" don't involve looking around or being aware of anything except that the phone is ringing, some other piece of useless $&*^ is on sale at Wally World etc blah blah blah. Most of us who CC rely on this to a degree depending on what "tactical" situation mother nature throws at us. If it's 90 + out I will either be OC or just throw a light shirt on. I mostly wear nice, NOT Hilo Hattie, aloha shirts and the pattern helps but they print and so be it. I hate the way tucking in on the strong side makes you look like an A$$ IMO. Polos get tucked in for the most part and then it's full OC with a nice clean rig or even then if need be deep concealment. Does anyone else wear upper body rigs under regular button down shirts? I have 2 shoulder rigs and a T shrit holster.
Personal choice so have fun with it and enjoy the fact that for the most part you have no worries whether someone has super vision or there oblivious.

VegasGeorge · Jul 30, 2010

There's another advantage to CC over OC that I really hadn't thought about until right now. When I OC I'm always on guard against someone snatching my gun. When I CC that's not an issue. Maybe if I OC'd every day I'd get so used to it that guarding wouldn't seem unnatural. But the way it is, I'm never quite completely relaxed when I OC.

wrightme · Jul 30, 2010

VegasGeorge said:
There's another advantage to CC over OC that I really hadn't thought about until right now. When I OC I'm always on guard against someone snatching my gun. When I CC that's not an issue. Maybe if I OC'd every day I'd get so used to it that guarding wouldn't seem unnatural. But the way it is, I'm never quite completely relaxed when I OC.

That sounds like your OC "ups" your SA. Use it to your advantage.

varminter22 · Jul 30, 2010

VegasGeorge said:
People tend to think of the difference between OC and CC as a legal or tactical issue. Of course it is a legal issue to the extent that a permit is required for CC. However, in my experience the difference between OC and CC is much more mundane than that. Really hot weather makes CC difficult and uncomfortable. Truly light weight clothing is just not designed to conceal anything. On the other hand, OC in the winter with coats and sweaters used everyday is darn hard. If you strap on a roscoe then throw a coat over it, you're carrying concealed and need a permit. Take the coat off and you're OC. This is why I think the whole OC CC law ought to be abolished. Particularly in States that already allow OC. Why should a permit be required just because you put on a coat? That's really stupid.

I agree and have long advocated VT/AK/AZ style law.

Nevada should adopt Alaska (or Arizona or Vermont) style CCW law - Constitutional Carry.

I opine the "law" only applies to law abiding citizens and the criminal element will never abide by "permit" laws; it is already unlawful for felons to even touch a firearm and for criminals to use firearms in a crime. And it should be our ultimate goal!

More on “Constitutional Carry”:

www.stillwaterfirearms.org/phpnuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=124&mode=&order=0&thold=0

www.stillwaterfirearms.org/phpnuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=136&mode=&order=0&thold=0

www.stillwaterfirearms.org/phpnuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=135&mode=&order=0&thold=0

www.stillwaterfirearms.org/phpnuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=127&mode=&order=0&thold=0

*** Need copy of Alaska’s 2003 bill that was enacted into law.

*** I have a copy of Arizona’s 2010 bill that was enacted into law.

*** Cite Vermont Supreme Court decision of May 30, 1903; cited as State vs Rosenthal, 75 Vt. 295, 55 A. 610 (1903).

Quote:
QUOTE from the Vermont decision:
The result is that Ordinance No. 10, so far as it relates to the carrying of a pistol, is inconsistent with and repugnant to the Constitution and the laws of the state, and it is therefore to that extent, void. [Bold emphasis added.]
UNQUOTE

*** Cite and compare VT and NV constitutions in reference to right to keep and bear arms:
Quote:
Vermont Constitution, Article 16th. Right to bear arms. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State …

And
Quote:
Nevada Constitution, Article 1, Section 11. Right to keep and bear arms. Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes.

Also see poll at www.stillwaterfirearms.org/phpnuke/modules.php?name=Surveys&pollID=16 and poll results and comments at
www.stillwaterfirearms.org/phpnuke/...ys&op=results&pollID=16&mode=&order=0&thold=0

No permit has been necessary in Vermont since statehood in 1791 and no permit has been necessary in Alaska since 2003. Have you ever heard of "problems" in those states?

Are Nevadans somehow less trustworthy?

familyman73 · Jul 30, 2010

VegasGeorge said:
There's another advantage to CC over OC that I really hadn't thought about until right now. When I OC I'm always on guard against someone snatching my gun. When I CC that's not an issue. Maybe if I OC'd every day I'd get so used to it that guarding wouldn't seem unnatural. But the way it is, I'm never quite completely relaxed when I OC.

I OC in northtown all the time, most people back away. I would also say the half of nlvpd doesnt know that the city law banning oc was replealed a year and a half ago. As for those in the forum that keep inciting NRS on no city county or municipality of 400,000 or more ..... please stop refering to northtown.... as of june 2010 north las vegas was under the 250,000 populus mark. the NRS is revised yearly because of north las vegas and boulder city violating our rights(NRS 2007 even stated that in a comment section). back in March this year a neighbor called and said I was brandishing(pointing my oc weapon at people) and trying to sell a gun to my neighbor. She is a nlvpd CI, my witnesses refuted her call(obviously never made it to the report). I was still arrested by 16 pd's with ar-15s (mostly rooks),who decided to incite a new law regarding concealed violation. I was charged with a c-felony because my tucked in shirt was long enough to conceal my oc. I was also charged with a unregistered weapons violation I was next to my vehicle when they came up on me and I tossed my wallet that was in my hand onto my seat. Long story short.... 3 muni judges, 3 ada's and one chief justice later, all charges were dropped after my public pretender convinced me the best way to go on with my life was to nolo the plea agreements that he was offered on my behalf( the justices reviewed it on their own later, cause I didnt ask them to... and a week after both cases closed both nolo's were refused and charges dismissed. ooorah for the justices, but dont ever think the the pd will respect your rights( btw one of the rooks with the ar-15 burried into my skull (while I was cuffed) told me loudly that he could shoot me at anytime and be justified. I was humored later to hear from security where I live that the rook was walking around asking security how he looked when he took me down.
*signed moving from northtown asap*

28kfps · Aug 1, 2010

familyman73 said:
I OC in northtown all the time, most people back away. I would also say the half of nlvpd doesnt know that the city law banning oc was replealed a year and a half ago.

I have been wondering if anyone has tried to open carry in NLV. That is some story. Not a fair set of data however looks like one might be ok to open carry in NLV as long as someone does not call in the armed forces. Glad they dropped the charges. Are you still open carrying in NLV? I LOL at your occupation.

flagellum · Aug 1, 2010

I OC'ed in NLV today. Do it every now and then, though somewhat rarely. Have never run into an officer while doing so.

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