Two things...

First:
My best friend is coming to Iowa for his birthday. He does not have his michigan CPL. I want to buy him a pistol for his birthday. If I buy the pistol here in Iowa, how do I go about "gifting" it to him, and what does he have to do to get it registered once he gets back to michigan?

Second:
I was bored the other day so I started looking into some of the ordinances from the cities I will be visiting in a month or two. I found a couple that were not in compliance with Michigan Law. First is Charlotte. There ordinance states:

§ 34-324 CONFISCATION OF FIREARMS.
All weapons, guns, pistols, firearms, knives, dirks, razors, stilettos or any other sharp-edged or pointed instruments or weapons carried, possessed or used contrary to this division are hereby declared forfeited to the city.

(1993 Code, § 34-324)

§ 34-325 TRANSPORTATION AND POSSESSION.
It shall be unlawful for any person to transport or to have in possession in or upon any vehicle a firearm unless the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and carried in the luggage compartment of the vehicle. It shall be unlawful to carry a firearm on any public street or in any public place unless it is unloaded and in a case.

(1993 Code, § 34-325)

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I have sent an email to the mayor, police chief, and city attorney. I have also sent them the packet provided here on the oc.o website.

Next is Meridian Township. Which states:

Sec. 54-36. - Firearms and other weapons.

No person shall, at any time, bring upon the township park property, nor possess or discharge anywhere upon such property, any firearm of any description, or air-rifle, spring gun, bow and arrow, sling, or any other form of weapon potentially dangerous to wildlife and human safety, or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges, or any kind or trapping device. Shooting into park property from beyond park boundaries is prohibited. This section however, shall not apply to any duly appointed law enforcement officer while carrying out the duties and responsibilities of their position. Any violation of this section is a misdemeanor punishable as provided by this Code.

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I have not yet tackled this one due to the holidays and time restraints, but I should have time to get the information out to them tomorrow. I will keep you all posted to the outcomes. Thanks.

Thanks for finding these, and doing something about it.

IIRC, InterState ownership transfers require an FFL on each end
Transfer fee usually runs $25ish on each side.

TheQ said:

IIRC, InterState ownership transfers require an FFL on each end
Transfer fee usually runs $25ish on each side.

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No. A FFL can do interstate, and in some cases intercontinental transactions. Think about it. If a FFL can buy a handgun in Georgia, then sell it in Michigan, there is no reason why he or she couldn't buy the handgun from a Georgian in the state of Michigan. A FFL can take ownership of the handgun, then immediately "sell it" on a 4473 and a RI060/permit to purchase. Barring any colonels in a Red Dawn scenario tracking people down through these registration documents, this should be the end of it.

Michigander said:

No. A FFL can do interstate, and in some cases intercontinental transactions. Think about it. If a FFL can buy a handgun in Georgia, then sell it in Michigan, there is no reason why he or she couldn't buy the handgun from a Georgian in the state of Michigan. A FFL can take ownership of the handgun, then immediately "sell it" on a 4473 and a RI060/permit to purchase. Barring any colonels in a Red Dawn scenario tracking people down through these registration documents, this should be the end of it.

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I've heard most FFL's will only work with another FFL, not an individual, in the destination state in the case of interstate transfers.

TheQ said:

IIRC, InterState ownership transfers require an FFL on each end
Transfer fee usually runs $25ish on each side.

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Not true.

TheQ said:

I've heard most FFL's will only work with another FFL, not an individual, in the destination state in the case of interstate transfers.

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Some FFL will only work with other FFL, those are the ones I do not support.
It is a CYA thing for them, not a law.
If they choose to make me spend unnecessary money for a second dealer, I just don't give them my business. If more people did this, their policy would change.

So... could I be a best friend? I could use some more handguns. And I could find the time and fuel to get to Iowa for the right ones, too.springerdave.

Ok,
So what, exactly, do I need to do? Can I just buy it, give it to him with the reciept and all information used to buy the firearm, then he has to get a permit in michigan? Or do I have to buy it and send it to a gun store in michigan? Im confused!

springerdave said:

So... could I be a best friend? I could use some more handguns. And I could find the time and fuel to get to Iowa for the right ones, too.springerdave.

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Sure thing. Head on out. All you have to do to make the list is be able to play call of duty black ops with me, like coors light, and love to eat hot wings.

Tucker6900 said:

Sure thing. Head on out. All you have to do to make the list is be able to play call of duty black ops with me, like coors light, and love to eat hot wings.

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I've never played Call Of Duty Black Ops, is it availible on Wii, or would we just be playing at your house anyways? I'm game, as long as you have a spare room. :lol: I may have to talk this through with the women first...

Would there be transport issues? We know a person who does not a have a CPL cannot possess another persons gun. Until the friend gets that pistol registered in his name, wouldn't he be running afoul of the law by just having the pistol in his car?

scot623 said:

Would there be transport issues? We know a person who does not a have a CPL cannot possess another persons gun. Until the friend gets that pistol registered in his name, wouldn't he be running afoul of the law by just having the pistol in his car?

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Have him get a PP before he leaves, then mail it when he gets to *destination*, keep his copies...

Would this work???

I'm going to offer my opinion, which is definitely not actual law, but is what I would do in this situation....

Because I'm aware that in situations where I'm not absolutely sure I have things right have the potential to turn out really bad... and obeying the laws of two different States plus Fed laws is something I'd want the help of an attorney about but that costs money.... I tend to go with tried and true methods. So I would simply use an FFL in Iowa to ship the gun to an FFL in Michigan and let the FFL's take care of doing it in a manner that satisfies all the laws.

Yep... that costs a bit of money but surely costs less than an attorney (who might tell me to just use FFLs anyway) and definitely costs less than any legal hassle I might innocently fall into.

Now... as I said... that is my opinion and is worth exactly what was paid for it.

However ... it wouldn't hurt to go ask an FFL for their opinion.

eastmeyers said:

Have him get a PP before he leaves, then mail it when he gets to *destination*, keep his copies...

Would this work???

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That is another question I just thought of. Would a Michigan Purchase Permit work in Iowa? If so I may just have him do that.

Tucker6900 said:

That is another question I just thought of. Would a Michigan Purchase Permit work in Iowa? If so I may just have him do that.

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No, absolutely not. It is incredibly simple. Without an FFL, you can buy handguns in your own state of residence, and that is all. There are some exceptions, like pre 1897 handguns, and black powder muzzle loaders, but this is not what we're talking about.

FFL's can do as they please in terms of where they sell. A Michigan resident with a FFL dealers license could buy a handgun is Tennessee, then sell it in Florida, use the money to buy another handgun in Maine then sell that one when he gets back home. You can do this too, if you wish to get a FFL or become a convicted felon. The 1968 GCA prohibits interstate handgun sales by non FFL's, but allows FFL's to sell legal guns wherever to anyone legally allowed to have them, end of story.

If you can't find a FFL that is willing to do a transfer where he or she takes possession of the gun then sells it back to the designated Michigan resident after a 4473 and purchase permit, ask for a FFL on this board and perhaps on MGO. There is a very long list of FFL's who would be happy to help.

Please excuse me for being a jackass, but I'm going to say this in all capitals. DO NOT BE STUPID AND TRY TO SKIRT FEDERAL LAW!!! I THINK WE CAN REST ASSURED THE FEDS MONITOR THIS FORUM. WE HAVE GONE TO THEM WITH OUR PROBLEMS, AND THEY KNOW WHO WE ARE! DON'T BREAK ANY LAWS!!!

Follow Michiganders advice. An interstate transfer of this sort requires an FFL. You need to find an FFL in Michigan that will receive the pistol and transfer it to him with the proper paperwork when he gets home. You cannot just give it to him and let him drive it home across the country....please do not do this.

Bronson

One last note, you can only mail a handgun via next day air, or with a FFL you can mail it slowly and more cheaply. This means like 60 plus dollars to mail it without a FFL, and like 12 bucks or so with the FFL.

Even if on the other side of the country, my understanding is that the FFL can send you a box to ship the handgun so that as soon as you box it up and send it the FFL is basically sending it to himself, allowing the cheaper shipping. I have commonly heard this referred to as getting a "shipper". I've never done this, but this is what I hear people do for interstate warranty work, and certainly it should work for interstate gun transfers, if my understanding is correct.

Maybe Ill just wait until I get back to michigan to do this. Sounds like a pain in the ass. Thanks for the advice!

Tucker6900 said:

Maybe Ill just wait until I get back to michigan to do this. Sounds like a pain in the ass. Thanks for the advice!

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or send him a check.:banana:

City of Charlotte Response

Finally, a response from the City of Charlotte. Looks like an education meeting is needed.

Mr. Clark--

The City of Charlotte is well aware of Michigan's Open Carry law. The law does not prohibit keeping on the books an ordinance that regulates in this area. It merely prohibits enforcement of the ordinance in a manner that conflicts with state law. We will take under advisement the need to amend this ordinance.

Gregg Guetschow
City Manager

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I sent him a response about the citizens not knowing of the law reading that and not excersising their rights. Awaiting further response.