UOCing on community college campus

Protoman2050 · Dec 28, 2010

CenTex said:
Now, unless I am greatly mistaken, no authorization is going to be issued to you from a school head to UOC. So, forget that. Your chance of getting to CC on campus may be more obtainable, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. It's been brought up, but I want to hit on it again. Do you want to take the chance of having a stray bullet hit some innocent bystander and killing them? What if several people are hit by stray bullets? What if your bullet hits a young man or woman who is a spouse as well as a parent? Do you want to live with that haunting you the rest of your life?

Now consider this, you have already been attacked and obviously survived. Is being assaulted reason enough to kill someone? Should you be attacked again, do you want to take the responsibility of pulling a firearm and shooting your assailant when the assailant may have nothing more in mind than beating you up, or taking your money, or just scaring you? You do not want to pull your firearm unless you intend to kill someone with it. Is that what you want as your choice should you be attacked again? The decision to draw a firearm and using it is predicated on the "belief" that your life is being threatened and, should the perpetrator succeed, you will die or will be severely injured. In my opinion, anything less than that does not warrant the use of a firearm.

You should take your own advice. Stay with groups of people. You should walk with friends to and from classes. Never walk alone.

The issue is that I often have to go to school in the early morning or late night, when there are few people around for me to walk with. I plan on taking a CCW training course and applying for a permit.

Obviously, I'd only use the firearm if an attacker cornered me.

And yes, I am willing to take the risk of missing...it's better I miss than remain unarmed and get killed.

PavePusher · Dec 29, 2010

CenTex said:
Do you want to take the chance of having a stray bullet hit some innocent bystander and killing them? What if several people are hit by stray bullets? What if your bullet hits a young man or woman who is a spouse as well as a parent? Do you want to live with that haunting you the rest of your life?

If we're using that as our primary criteria, no-one should carry...

since9 · Dec 29, 2010

CenTex said:
Do you want to take the chance of having a stray bullet hit some innocent bystander and killing them? What if several people are hit by stray bullets? What if your bullet hits a young man or woman who is a spouse as well as a parent? Do you want to live with that haunting you the rest of your life?

You're talking to one who used to fly B-52s laden with 20 ALCMs, and I was the one with the button in my hand (well, the keys beneath my fingertips, as I did the final programming to launch them).

Hundreds of kilotons. Each. Could I live with that, knowing I'd killed millions?

Yes. Why? How? Because I knew the system. I knew the hurdles, the safeguards, the barriers which must be breached before a launch order would ever have been given, and I knew the infinitessimal liklihood that would ever happen if it weren't the real thing.

When it comes to one man, one firearm, however, the only one who can know one's own safeguards, hurdles, and barriers, is the one holding the firearm.

I know mine, and I'll bet I'm somewhat distinct in that I long ago penciled out a decision matrix that I'd follow (almost) no matter what, and every time I go to the range I think about some of the more likely things I might experience as well as how I'd respond.

How is this different from law enforcement training? Very little, actually, as they run through similar scenarios in their training all the time. In fact, I use their firing criteria myself at the range, at least to the extent possible I can without having the benefit of popup targets, variable barriers, and other real-world scenarios. Ten bucks for the afternoon doesn't buy much!

Thankfully, our goals remain similar, although mine stop at protecting self and others from harm. Their mandate goes further, into taking down the bad guys, and more power to them. I've been there, done that, on a slightly larger, but no less important scale, so I fully understand their decisions they make every day with respect with what they may have to do that day, and with what they might have to live with.

It's not a decision I took lightly. I'm sure it's not a decision most of them take lightly, either.

since9 · Dec 29, 2010

As for UOCing or AOCing (let's keep it simple and call it "OCing") on any campus...

How in the world is that any different from my OCing in and among the tens if not hundreds of men, women, and children at McDonalds, Wal-Mart, Burger King, Dave's Bar-B-Que, Target, K-Mart, Shell, Chevron, BP, Red Lobster, Radio Shack, Lowes, Home Depot, King Supers, IHOP, Kroger...

It doesn't. The only difference, as Yoda said, is in one's mind...

Protoman2050 · Dec 29, 2010

Would the fact I have to leave for school while still dark be "Good Cause" for a CCW?

since9 said:
As for UOCing or AOCing (let's keep it simple and call it "OCing") on any campus...

How in the world is that any different from my OCing in and among the tens if not hundreds of men, women, and children at McDonalds, Wal-Mart, Burger King, Dave's Bar-B-Que, Target, K-Mart, Shell, Chevron, BP, Red Lobster, Radio Shack, Lowes, Home Depot, King Supers, IHOP, Kroger...

It doesn't. The only difference, as Yoda said, is in one's mind...

Would the fact I have to leave for school while it's still dark, where there's not too many people around to assist me in case of an attack, be "Good Cause" for a CCW?

I also have to accompany my Dad on his work (marine cargo insurance surveyor) at the port, which while he is escorted to and from the ship, I am left alone outside the TWIC area to watch the car. This often happens at night, and we have to pass through high crime areas.

Born2Lose · Dec 29, 2010

Protoman2050 said:
Would the fact I have to leave for school while it's still dark, where there's not too many people around to assist me in case of an attack, be "Good Cause" for a CCW?

I also have to accompany my Dad on his work (marine cargo insurance surveyor) at the port, which while he is escorted to and from the ship, I am left alone outside the TWIC area to watch the car. This often happens at night, and we have to pass through high crime areas.

Are you a judge that moonlights as a diamond dealer that was mugged 5 times by the Zodiac Killer?

If not then good luck with a CCW. :lol:

Move to Sacramento for a year and get your CCW up there since they went "Shall Issue" OR stick it out and hope that the Peruta appeal goes well.

Protoman2050 · Dec 29, 2010

Born2Lose said:
Are you a judge that moonlights as a diamond dealer that was mugged 5 times by the Zodiac Killer?

If not then good luck with a CCW. :lol:

Move to Sacramento for a year and get your CCW up there since they went "Shall Issue" OR stick it out and hope that the Peruta appeal goes well.

Why must LA make everything so difficult? I'd be better off getting a camping chair container, sticking an unloaded Benelli M4 in it, locking it and slinging it over my back, and keeping the shells in another locked case strapped on my belt.

The PD can't force me to open my containers due to 4th amendment without a warrant, and since it's LUCC, I'm really not going to have much of a problem with it accidently becoming exposed.

Born2Lose · Dec 29, 2010

Protoman2050 said:
Why must LA make everything so difficult? I'd be better off getting a camping chair container, sticking an unloaded Benelli M4 in it, locking it and slinging it over my back, and keeping the shells in another locked case strapped on my belt.

The PD can't force me to open my containers due to 4th amendment without a warrant, and since it's LUCC, I'm really not going to have much of a problem with it accidently becoming exposed.

You could have the shells in the side saddle shell holder.
However i think you'd have a pretty hard time justifying taking the shot if you had time to unlock the container and load up. Maybe just start carrying pepper spray or maybe like on the movie "The Other Guys" you could carry a rape whistle.

Gun Free School Zones MUST GO!

Protoman2050 · Dec 29, 2010

Born2Lose said:
You could have the shells in the side saddle shell holder.
However i think you'd have a pretty hard time justifying taking the shot if you had time to unlock the container and load up. Maybe just start carrying pepper spray or maybe like on the movie "The Other Guys" you could carry a rape whistle.
Gun Free School Zones MUST GO!

I could always bash them on the head with the container, to give me enough time to escape, or load up if they start pursuing me.

I'll probably also carry OC or CS with me, as a less-lethal first line of defense.

LOL, I'd be armed to the teeth, and no-one would ever know.

I just want to make sure that if the creepy guy in the trenchcoat who's on campus (the profs are freaked out by him, cause he wears a closed trenchcoat in all weather conds., and according to one of my profs, he's a neo-Nazi) ever decides to pull a Virginia Tech, I'll be ready to defend myself and my friends. Seriously, what is he hiding under there, an AR-15? Next semester, if I see him, I'm going to call PD and report suspicious activity. Trying to use the 4th amendment against a PD search would be absolute hypocrisy for him.

Decoligny · Dec 30, 2010

In areas where I have to walk, where I am not allowed to carry a firearm, I always carry at least a knife. If I am not allowed to carry a knife, then I will carry my cane.

It is a nice sturdy solid oak cane that works wonderfully for supporting my bad knee.

It is also light enought to swing very quickly, and when swung in a figure 8 pattern will effectively keep anyone from getting close enough to engage in a physical attack. It is also a very hard and strong wooden cane and is very unlikely to break if it actually impacts against the vulnerable spots of an assailant.

It is perfectly legal to carry a cane just about anywhere. I have taken mine on a flight across country last year, and I have carried it into both Federal and County courtrooms without any problems.

Born2Lose · Dec 30, 2010

Protoman2050 said:
I just want to make sure that if the creepy guy in the trenchcoat who's on campus (the profs are freaked out by him, cause he wears a closed trenchcoat in all weather conds., and according to one of my profs, he's a neo-Nazi) ever decides to pull a Virginia Tech, I'll be ready to defend myself and my friends. Seriously, what is he hiding under there, an AR-15? Next semester, if I see him, I'm going to call PD and report suspicious activity. Trying to use the 4th amendment against a PD search would be absolute hypocrisy for him.

I've never heard of a Neo-Nazi wearing a trenchcoat. Bomber/Flight jacket yes..trenchcoat..no.
He probably thinks the same thing about you. Don't judge a book by its cover. Talk to him. Maybe he isn't as weird as you might think. Maybe you should start hanging out with him and the guys that beat you up before will be too afraid to mess with you anymore.
I'm just saying you shouldn't start calling PD on people for no good reason. Sounds like something a Sheeple would do.

Phoenix David · Dec 30, 2010

Protoman2050 said:
Would the fact I have to leave for school while it's still dark, where there's not too many people around to assist me in case of an attack, be "Good Cause" for a CCW? .

You are in California, unless you are a highly placed Democrat or a high profile move or TV personality (Democrat of course) or contribute tons of money to Democrats you have no good cause to have a CCW. Hell if you testified against MS13 your still would have no good cause to get a CCW from the the most representative and anti-American government in this union.

Your young, move out of that cesspool that is California and to a state that understands what the US Constitution is and what liberty means.

Protoman2050 · Dec 30, 2010

Born2Lose said:
I've never heard of a Neo-Nazi wearing a trenchcoat. Bomber/Flight jacket yes..trenchcoat..no.
He probably thinks the same thing about you. Don't judge a book by its cover. Talk to him. Maybe he isn't as weird as you might think. Maybe you should start hanging out with him and the guys that beat you up before will be too afraid to mess with you anymore.
I'm just saying you shouldn't start calling PD on people for no good reason. Sounds like something a Sheeple would do.

The profs are scared of him; one of my philosophy profs, the department chair, said that he once threatened her.

But I see your point...wearing a leather duster and keeping in close proximity to him would scare attackers off.

Firemark · Dec 30, 2010

CenTex said:
You do not want to pull your firearm unless you intend to kill someone with it. Is that what you want as your choice should you be attacked again? The decision to draw a firearm and using it is predicated on the "belief" that your life is being threatened and, should the perpetrator succeed, you will die or will be severely injured. In my opinion, anything less than that does not warrant the use of a firearm.

Sorry CenTex, I respectfully disagree with you. I believe that drawing and aiming a firearm at attackers before firing will have an IMMEDIATE affect on their actions. My personal experience, my grandmother thwarted dozens of attacks during her life while living in NY. Never once fired a shot, and the link below shows an example of how 1 armed individual can stop a large group of people from attacking without firing a shot.

Florida couple saved

CenTex what is your personal experience drawing on would be attackers?

Protoman2050 · Dec 31, 2010

Firemark said:
Sorry CenTex, I respectfully disagree with you. I believe that drawing and aiming a firearm at attackers before firing will have an IMMEDIATE affect on their actions. My personal experience, my grandmother thwarted dozens of attacks during her life while living in NY. Never once fired a shot, and the link below shows an example of how 1 armed individual can stop a large group of people from attacking without firing a shot.

Florida couple saved

CenTex what is your personal experience drawing on would be attackers?

Yeah, the very presence of a gun would certainly dissuade the majority of robbers.

If I decide to UOC in Long Beach, would it be a good idea to let the police substation in the area know ahead of time, so they can expedite any MAWG calls they get to "make sure firearm is unloaded and run serial number to make sure it's not stolen." I often have to be right near CSULB for errands (the area with the 7-11 and Pizzamania), but never actually on it, but that area is still patrolled by campus police. Should I visit and ask the police dept. to issue a permanent APB to inform all squad cars patrolling the area I am carrying an unloaded revolver on a leather belt holster near my buckle, and if they catch me on CSULB property, it will be accidental, and to escort me off with a warning as to property lines?

CenTex · Dec 31, 2010

Firemark said:
Sorry CenTex, I respectfully disagree with you. I believe that drawing and aiming a firearm at attackers before firing will have an IMMEDIATE affect on their actions. My personal experience, my grandmother thwarted dozens of attacks during her life while living in NY. Never once fired a shot, and the link below shows an example of how 1 armed individual can stop a large group of people from attacking without firing a shot.

Florida couple saved

CenTex what is your personal experience drawing on would be attackers?

The former LA police officer that still teaches people that want to CCW (or OC while doing security work) where I live taught us never to draw a weapon unless we intended to use it. If I remember correctly, since it has been a number of years back, he also taught us that this was the rule to follow in Canada by their police officers.

Now, go back and read what I said. Unless a person "believes" that his life is threatened to where the aggressor may kill him or seriously injure him, I would not pull a weapon. I stand by this. I will not kill someone who has no intention of doing either of these two things. I can take a smacking or two while I try defending myself with equal force.

We don't know this 19 year old. We have heard only his side of this story. Maybe, I am just saying, maybe he asked for what he got. It does happen, you know.

ProtoMan2050, I am not saying you deserved to be beat up. I just think your reaction to this beating "may" be over reactive. You will have to decide that for yourself...no one else can make the final decision but you.

I have an elderly lady friend who shot and killed an intruder of her property and house in Oregon, He was drunk and on drugs. He would not leave the property on her command and kept coming toward her. She shot him with a .22 rifle. One shot. Man dead. The DA wanted to prosecute her for murder. Fortunately she found a good lawyer. However, even with her lawyer, she had to plead down and was finally charged and found guilty for "reckless handling of a firearm." I talked to her about this yesterday. After more than 30 years, she still came to tears with remorse that she had killed this man.

This is not Hollywood. You won't be joking and laughing after you kill someone. For most people, even when they are in the right, it is a gut-wrenching experience they never get over. They just have to learn to live with the fact. There are many veterans who will not talk about their war experiences. Ask yourself why. They don't want to remember that they were put into a situation where they had to kill someone, where they saw their own buddies killed alongside them, or the memories of seeing the dead and the dying.

There are a lot of tough-talking people on this forum who will tell you that you have a right to kill someone who is threatening you. Look at the question that was posed to me by the last poster. Have I drawn a weapon on someone? Drawing a gun on a person is not the same as killing someone. Remember that.

I hope that you will give this a lot of serious thought. I would also seek out counseling from an older, mature friend or relative that you look up to and get their advise before you proceed.

End of my replies on this subject.

Born2Lose · Dec 31, 2010

CenTex said:
I will not kill someone who has no intention of doing either of these two things. I can take a smacking or two while I try defending myself with equal force.

I realize you are done posting on this so no need to reply CenTex.

If i am armed and i warn someone to stay back and they continue to advance their intentions seem clear enough to me. I'm not about to get in a fist fight with someone all the while trying to figure out if he's going to stop after one punch or after he has kicked my teeth in and stolen my gun and wallet. I believe if you pull a weapon and they don't instantly spin in their tracks and high tail it then you know their intentions.

I have never drawn a weapon on someone and i hope i never have too.

Protoman2050 · Dec 31, 2010

CenTex said:
The former LA police officer that still teaches people that want to CCW (or OC while doing security work) where I live taught us never to draw a weapon unless we intended to use it. If I remember correctly, since it has been a number of years back, he also taught us that this was the rule to follow in Canada by their police officers.

Now, go back and read what I said. Unless a person "believes" that his life is threatened to where the aggressor may kill him or seriously injure him, I would not pull a weapon. I stand by this. I will not kill someone who has no intention of doing either of these two things. I can take a smacking or two while I try defending myself with equal force.

We don't know this 19 year old. We have heard only his side of this story. Maybe, I am just saying, maybe he asked for what he got. It does happen, you know.

ProtoMan2050, I am not saying you deserved to be beat up. I just think your reaction to this beating "may" be over reactive. You will have to decide that for yourself...no one else can make the final decision but you.

I have an elderly lady friend who shot and killed an intruder of her property and house in Oregon, He was drunk and on drugs. He would not leave the property on her command and kept coming toward her. She shot him with a .22 rifle. One shot. Man dead. The DA wanted to prosecute her for murder. Fortunately she found a good lawyer. However, even with her lawyer, she had to plead down and was finally charged and found guilty for "reckless handling of a firearm." I talked to her about this yesterday. After more than 30 years, she still came to tears with remorse that she had killed this man.

This is not Hollywood. You won't be joking and laughing after you kill someone. For most people, even when they are in the right, it is a gut-wrenching experience they never get over. They just have to learn to live with the fact. There are many veterans who will not talk about their war experiences. Ask yourself why. They don't want to remember that they were put into a situation where they had to kill someone, where they saw their own buddies killed alongside them, or the memories of seeing the dead and the dying.

There are a lot of tough-talking people on this forum who will tell you that you have a right to kill someone who is threatening you. Look at the question that was posed to me by the last poster. Have I drawn a weapon on someone? Drawing a gun on a person is not the same as killing someone. Remember that.

I hope that you will give this a lot of serious thought. I would also seek out counseling from an older, mature friend or relative that you look up to and get their advise before you proceed.

End of my replies on this subject.

I hope I never have to draw it (displaying my holster should be enough to scare an attacker off), and I hope I *never* have to fire it; if I did, it'd be because I was cornered with my back against the wall, and no-one came to my aid after screaming my lungs out. I can take being smacked as well. My issue is that if they intend to do more than that, I want the ability to respond with equal force. If they were unarmed and attacking me, I can fight them off, but if they were armed, I'd be dead.

I've got some detective friends of my Dad (regularly works with them on theft cases, he handles the insurance side), as well as having regular friendly contact with my local cops off-duty. I'll ask them for their opinion.

Did that lady attempt to call the cops on the guy?

ConsideringOC · Dec 31, 2010

Born2Lose said:
I realize you are done posting on this so no need to reply CenTex.

If i am armed and i warn someone to stay back and they continue to advance their intentions seem clear enough to me. I'm not about to get in a fist fight with someone all the while trying to figure out if he's going to stop after one punch or after he has kicked my teeth in and stolen my gun and wallet. I believe if you pull a weapon and they don't instantly spin in their tracks and high tail it then you know their intentions.

I have never drawn a weapon on someone and i hope i never have too.

And if that person is unarmed, hasn't beat you to the point where you feel you will DIE....then you will be spending a long time in prison.

This uninformed mentality is what scares me most. If you are too scared to sometimes mix it up, argue for you, and maybe get a scratch in life.... then lock yourself in a closet and turn off the light. Few of us know what it like to take a life. There is a lot of decisions that need to be made in a milisecond. Pulling and pointing a gun to be tough and turn a non leathal fight away falls under 417a pc...look it up. This is the mentality that anti gun people will use so that CCWs wont be issued.

Im sorry you got beat up... doesnt sound like you were shot or stabbed. You are here to talk about it so I guarantee you would not be justified in brandishing or using a weapon

Born2Lose · Dec 31, 2010

ConsideringOC said:
And if that person is unarmed, hasn't beat you to the point where you feel you will DIE....then you will be spending a long time in prison.

This uninformed mentality is what scares me most. If you are too scared to sometimes mix it up, argue for you, and maybe get a scratch in life.... then lock yourself in a closet and turn off the light. Few of us know what it like to take a life. There is a lot of decisions that need to be made in a milisecond. Pulling and pointing a gun to be tough and turn a non leathal fight away falls under 417a pc...look it up. This is the mentality that anti gun people will use so that CCWs wont be issued.

Im sorry you got beat up... doesnt sound like you were shot or stabbed. You are here to talk about it so I guarantee you would not be justified in brandishing or using a weapon

If someone agressively comes towards me, i verbally warn them such as "Stay back i'm armed", they continue to advance, i pull out a GUN! and they still advance I will shoot.

I WILL NOT let someone beat on me until i THINK they might kill me. Period.

UOCing on community college campus

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