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I was banned from Stonestown Mall.

S

SanFranciscoOpenCarry

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
5
Location
San Francisco
I normally Open Carry. To and from work, at home, and just about everywhere it is legal. In June, I was there with my wife and kids. Half of the mall is in a GFSZ so my firearm was not in my "cell phone holster". It's a blackhawk holster that also seems to hold my Glock 23, perfectly. With that said, empty holster, shopping, and out of nowhere I have a cop ordering me to hand my baby to some woman and I am then ordered to the ground. Long story short, cops were cool after removing my mags and Taser and frisking me. After dealing with the police, security insists they are going to ban me for one year under pc554 and pc602 for an empty "firearm holster". So i shoved my cell phone in it and replied, "that's a cell phone holster, i don't know what you are talking about." What can I do about this ban? The day my ban expires I will be outside of the GFSZ with my long guns if Open Carrying my Glock becomes illegal but I would love to drag them through the mud on this one.
 
cato

cato

Newbie
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
2,338
Location
California, USA
So you were detained for NOT carrying a firearm and had your child seized at the request of mall security? Were you recording? Was the mall security the caller?

Were you passing out or had available any political fliers? Were you discussing self defense, firearm, or politics with anyone who spoke with you at the mall?

Did officers pull their firearms or place hands on their holstered firearms?

Could be some 4th and 1st A issues here. Talk to a civil rights attorney.

Why were you not LUCC? You could have had you glock with you.
 
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S

SanFranciscoOpenCarry

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
5
Location
San Francisco
"my firearm is in a secure location"

@ Cato Is all I would tell the cops. What's LUCC? I do not know where the cops guns were as I was instructed not to turn around and I did not want to get shot. I did not record anything but I have an unsigned ban notice with an alias on it, not my real name. I used the name of their head of security. They gave me his business card. and when asked for my information I read it verbatim off the card. I have emails asking them to lift the ban since no laws were broken which they could enforce the ban under PC602(t) had I committed a crime.I was not talking guns or politics to anyone, nor handing out fliers of any sorts. I was simply and only shopping with my family. My wife wanted some Dansko shoes for work. Sure, shoe shopping with my wife takes two to three hours sometimes, but it was not even excessive loitering by any stretch of the imagination. And I was not recording because i had no idea the cops would be called since my firearm was secure and not on my hip.
 
Jerry2197

Jerry2197

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
13
Location
San Diego
Hahaha. So you got ban for an EMPTY holster? WTF:banana: That is funny. Can they even do that?
 
Born2Lose

Born2Lose

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
262
Location
PRK, East County San Diego
Jerry2197 said:
Hahaha. So you got ban for an EMPTY holster? WTF:banana: That is funny. Can they even do that?
Click to expand...

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

no_soup_for_you.png
 
Jerry2197

Jerry2197

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
13
Location
San Diego
Well you should be able to go back in a few days. I dont think they will recognize you a few days later.
When I was 16 I was kicked out of K mart in our small town and told to never come back. I went back a few days later no one even noticed that i was not suposed to be there. :banana:
 
C

camsoup

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
167
Location
Red Bluff, California, USA
SanFranciscoOpenCarry said:
How do you enforce that, with or without it posted, without it being discrimination? I understand if you do anything out of the ordinary or even disrupt other guests, but with justifiable cause, it's discrimination. I'm sorry.
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It is not against the law for a private business to tell you to leave or no longer shop. Whether or not they have a valid reason. Its private property and their call.
 
MilProGuy

MilProGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
1,210
Location
Mississippi
Jerry2197 said:
Well you should be able to go back in a few days. I dont think they will recognize you a few days later.
When I was 16 I was kicked out of K mart in our small town and told to never come back. I went back a few days later no one even noticed that i was not suposed to be there. :banana:
Click to expand...

As long as he leaves all his self defense paraphenalia in the car, I'd wager he could go back back in a week or so and not be harassed.
 
Lawful Aim

Lawful Aim

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
131
Location
USA
If someone does remember him they could have an arrest made for trespassing without warning.

Mall security is an agent for the property owner. They are given criteria for who to ban. It may be possible to contact the office of the owner for clarification or confirmation. If there is a particular store or stores that you enjoy patronizing, the store manager(s) may put in a good word for you. They want your business and your referral especially in this economy.
 
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SanFranciscoOpenCarry

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
5
Location
San Francisco
i've tried that and they turned their backs in the hope this goes away.

Lawful Aim said:
If someone does remember him they could have an arrest made for trespassing without warning.

Mall security is an agent for the property owner. They are given criteria for who to ban. It may be possible to contact the office of the owner for clarification or confirmation. If there is a particular store or stores that you enjoy patronizing, the store manager(s) may put in a good word for you. They want your business and your referral especially in this economy.
Click to expand...

That's why I want to drag them through the mud. They know they are wrong but won't admit fault.
 
S

SanFranciscoOpenCarry

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
5
Location
San Francisco
"we reserve the right to discriminate?"

Without a law backing it, it's discrimination. I carry a firearm to exercise my first and second amendment rights. It is who I am, freedom of expression, and my ability to protect myself, second amendment. I cannot believe that anyone who Open Carries would side with a business that discriminates. There are laws protecting any type of manufacturing, farming, construction, restaurants, and any small business. But a mall? Agriculture, construction, and manufactoring are not open to the public. Trespassing would be illegal. Restaurants and small businesses are protected under excessive loitering. If you "hang out" to make a point, that is illegal. But as PC602(t)2 states, it soes not apply if no law has been broken. PC602.1(c)2 states, this does not apply if a person is exercising their constitutional rights. My wording is off but uou get the point. And if you do not break the law, what can cops do? Security can file a citizens arrest but without a law backing their actions, it would be false imprisonment. Which is a felony! Will it stick, no. But makes for a great threat.
Born2Lose said:
"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

no_soup_for_you.png
Click to expand...
 
Born2Lose

Born2Lose

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
262
Location
PRK, East County San Diego
SanFranciscoOpenCarry said:
Without a law backing it, it's discrimination. I carry a firearm to exercise my first and second amendment rights. It is who I am, freedom of expression, and my ability to protect myself, second amendment. I cannot believe that anyone who Open Carries would side with a business that discriminates. There are laws protecting any type of manufacturing, farming, construction, restaurants, and any small business. But a mall? Agriculture, construction, and manufactoring are not open to the public. Trespassing would be illegal. Restaurants and small businesses are protected under excessive loitering. If you "hang out" to make a point, that is illegal. But as PC602(t)2 states, it soes not apply if no law has been broken. PC602.1(c)2 states, this does not apply if a person is exercising their constitutional rights. My wording is off but uou get the point. And if you do not break the law, what can cops do? Security can file a citizens arrest but without a law backing their actions, it would be false imprisonment. Which is a felony! Will it stick, no. But makes for a great threat.
Click to expand...


I don't side with them. I was stating what the mall's justification would be. Do you think Paul Blart aka gecko45 wants you scaring "his" customers and be "outgunned"? He's going to say you're trespassing and ask you to leave or ban you. (ohs no's nots a bans! from a mall)
When the cops show up and tell you to leave with your pistol then YOU stay and exercise your 1st and 2nd ammendment rights and be the "test case".
When you get out of the clink and start the process of getting your pistol back then get on here and let us know how it went.

I think we should be able to "constitituional carry" in the mall, in court, in post offices, anywhere we desire.
 
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