Red Rock Hiking Area Open Carry?

Vegassteve · Mar 9, 2012

Yep I carried there alot myself. Since finding this out last fall though we have not been back. I think the reason we get away with it may be uninformed officers???

I normally take what a LEO says is law very lightly because most of the time they are wrong, in this case it looks like his email to me was correct. So if we think it has been out dated by the new fed park law we need some research I guess.

MAC702 · Mar 9, 2012

DON`T TREAD ON ME said:
...they used to not honor the NATL. park pass, they do now...

That's good enough for me!

Vegassteve · Mar 9, 2012

MAC702 said:
That's good enough for me!

Not for me. I really think we need to follow this more closely. I am going to start digging around some more. Like I said the fine is big and so is the jail time.

Vegassteve · Mar 9, 2012

Here is some info concerning the parks pass they accept. Fron the Red Rock site...Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area began collecting fees in 1998. America the Beautiful Pass, which replaced the National Parks Pass, Golden Age, Golden Access and Golden Eagle began sales in 2007.

So they started taking that before the park law went into effect.

Now about the pass from the NPS website. A pass is your ticket to more than 2,000 federal recreation sites. Each pass covers entrance fees at national parks and national wildlife refuges as well as standard amenity fees at national forests and grasslands, and at lands managed by the Bureau of Land Management and Bureau of Reclamation

Now we all know that some of those things can be off limits to carry such as Reclamation sites. So taking that pass does not seem to imply or mean that it follows the parks law.

Again the NPS law is very clear on carry so I think it is a stretch to apply it.

Vegassteve · Mar 9, 2012

From the BLM main site. Bold is mine. I think this is where they get the authority. OK I dont know how to bold so I separated it out.

BLM policy is to allow the safe use of firearms on public lands – for both hunting and shooting sports – as provided for in state law, and to cooperate with state authorities in the enforcement of firearms regulations. Individuals have BLM's permission to possess and use legal firearms on BLM-administered public lands,

except when prohibited by other applicable laws and regulations.

Both hunting and shooting are specifically prohibited near developed recreation sites and administratively closed areas on the public lands.

MAC702 · Mar 9, 2012

Okay, that is a little bit more informative, thanks. I hadn't realized my "National Parks Pass" covered specifically more than "National Parks." Yeah, more research required.

To bold something, surround the text with openbracket-b-closedbracket and openbracket-/b-closedbracket, but use [] and don't use the -.
Underline same with ,
Italicize same with .

Vegassteve · Mar 9, 2012

OK just got this response from the head LEO.

Hope this helps.

Hello Steve,

Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area is not part of the National Park Service (even though it honors the National Park Pass system of passes for entrance fees) it is part of the Bureau of Land Management. On the majority of BLM lands within Nevada a person can open carry as long as he/she follows all federal and state laws. Red Rock Canyon NCA has additional regulations which prohibit the possession of a loaded firearm UNLESS you are legally hunting in areas where hunting is allowed. A person with a concealed weapons permit cannot carry a loaded weapon within Red Rock Canyon NCA; however if the person is travelling through Red Rock on the highway it's not an issue UNLESS the person is stopped by an officer (say for speeding) and DOES NOT state that they are carrying a concealed weapon. If BLM officials are telling you something different please let me know who they are because this information needs to be consistent. Also be aware that legislation for National Park Service lands applies to National Park Service Lands or lands that are specified in the specific legislation and there are many different federal lands with varying jurisdictions and regulations (i.e. Bureau of Land Management, US Forest Service, Nat'l Park Service, US Fish & Wildlife, Bureau of Reclamation & also the military areas).

Please see this attached link and in particular the link for Red Rock Supplementary Rules. The section you are interested is on the fourth page under section 3.2 Weapons.

http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/lvfo/blm_information/laws_and_regulations.html

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Robert Mitsuyasu
Supervisor Law Enforcement Ranger
Southern Nevada District Office
(702) 622 5757

Elycion · Mar 9, 2012

Red Rock Canyon NCA has additional regulations which prohibit the possession of a loaded firearm UNLESS you are legally hunting in areas where hunting is allowed.

I really think the government agencies need to be accountable to the people on issues like this. It's not good enough to say that they've imposed this rule with no justification as to why. If they are allowed to make up special regulations because it is a "conservation area", then they need to be able to explain to the public exactly what plant, animal, geological formation, bacteria, or space alien is damaged by the mere presence of a holstered firearm. What we need is the reverse of the recently overturned Maryland law where the government is required to show "good and substantial reason" as to why law abiding citizens should be denied their rights.

This would seem like a good issue for the Nevada Firearms Coalition to look into.

The Big Guy · Mar 10, 2012

Let's do something better. Let's go the route of Utah and bring forth legislation to kick the Federal Government out of NV and reclaim "OUR" lands. Here is a novel Idea, make the Feds abide by the Constitution in that it clearly spells out what "land" the Federal Government may own and hold. Guess what, it ain't BLM land.

TBG

crash5150 · Mar 10, 2012

So unloaded open carry at best. Thanks for the contact number and I'll give him a shout out.

Thanks for the discussion. Didn't expect the thread to take off like this. Good discussion.

MAC702 · Mar 10, 2012

The Big Guy said:
Let's do something better. Let's go the route of Utah and bring forth legislation to kick the Federal Government out of NV and reclaim "OUR" lands....

They control 84-87% of our state! What would we do with it all?!

The Big Guy · Mar 10, 2012

MAC702 said:
They control 84-87% of our state! What would we do with it all?!

Sit on a bluff, with beer in hand, as the sun goes down survey all that is ours...

TBG

DON`T TREAD ON ME · Mar 11, 2012

I find it amusing how he believes that there is a requirement to "announce" the presence of your firearm.

if the person is travelling through Red Rock on the highway it's not an issue UNLESS the person is stopped by an officer (say for speeding) and DOES NOT state that they are carrying a concealed weapon.

Vegassteve · Mar 11, 2012

DON`T TREAD ON ME said:
I find it amusing how he believes that there is a requirement to "announce" the presence of your firearm.

Yea I let that one slide. I didnt have the time to send and argue the point. I am sure he thinks he is right anyway.

crash5150 · Mar 14, 2012

Went to Red Rock today. I did Unloaded Open Carry. Told the guy at the front gate. "Just in case you get a call, I'm open Carrying unloaded to follow the rules here and if you'd let the ranger know so he's not alarmed." The guy at the gate replied, 'If you are unloaded you are good to go." Walked around the park with a stare or two but that was it. Nice place. Ended up going to the visitors center. I waited outside while my girlfriend went in to use a real restroom. I spoke with a Visitor Center Employee for a few minutes and she noticed but didn't say anything. This guy, who looked pretty rough, came from an employee area buttoning up his pants and then tried to get his belt on right. He ended up doing the stare and walk by me thing. A few moments later the girlfriend came out and we went to the car. We are getting in the car and that employee (no name tag just came from employee area) and another guy (no name tag but came from employee area) were walking very quickly towards us. I just got in the car and drove off and he tried to get my attention. Almost thought he was going to run up on the car and try to get me to stop. Not sure what that was about but maybe he was wanting to make sure I wasn't loaded. (empty mag in weapon to keep dirt out).

Shortly after, I got an email from an administrator from the park and answered an email I sent before I started this thread. She mentioned loaded firearms were not allowed and to take a look at the rules and she added the link for it. It is that document from 93 we looked at before. All it stated was loaded weapons were not permitted. I then asked about the unloaded in the building and assumed that I still wasn't allowed. She followed the email with the unloaded firearms were also not permitted in the park and she just spoke to the law enforcement at the park. I told her that the section only mentioned loaded firearms and that the guy at the front allowed it. She said she will get an answer. She emailed me and said that she stands corrected and that Unloaded Open Carry is allowed in the park, but of course not the buildings. She also stated to expect law enforcement to 'check me out' if I was in a more populated part of the park and they got a call or were nearby.

So how does one pee? haha.

The Big Guy · Mar 15, 2012

crash5150 said:
Went to Red Rock today. I did Unloaded Open Carry. Told the guy at the front gate. "Just in case you get a call, I'm open Carrying unloaded to follow the rules here and if you'd let the ranger know so he's not alarmed." The guy at the gate replied, 'If you are unloaded you are good to go." Walked around the park with a stare or two but that was it. Nice place. Ended up going to the visitors center. I waited outside while my girlfriend went in to use a real restroom. I spoke with a Visitor Center Employee for a few minutes and she noticed but didn't say anything. This guy, who looked pretty rough, came from an employee area buttoning up his pants and then tried to get his belt on right. He ended up doing the stare and walk by me thing. A few moments later the girlfriend came out and we went to the car. We are getting in the car and that employee (no name tag just came from employee area) and another guy (no name tag but came from employee area) were walking very quickly towards us. I just got in the car and drove off and he tried to get my attention. Almost thought he was going to run up on the car and try to get me to stop. Not sure what that was about but maybe he was wanting to make sure I wasn't loaded. (empty mag in weapon to keep dirt out).

Shortly after, I got an email from an administrator from the park and answered an email I sent before I started this thread. She mentioned loaded firearms were not allowed and to take a look at the rules and she added the link for it. It is that document from 93 we looked at before. All it stated was loaded weapons were not permitted. I then asked about the unloaded in the building and assumed that I still wasn't allowed. She followed the email with the unloaded firearms were also not permitted in the park and she just spoke to the law enforcement at the park. I told her that the section only mentioned loaded firearms and that the guy at the front allowed it. She said she will get an answer. She emailed me and said that she stands corrected and that Unloaded Open Carry is allowed in the park, but of course not the buildings. She also stated to expect law enforcement to 'check me out' if I was in a more populated part of the park and they got a call or were nearby.

So how does one pee? haha.

The law I believe only states that you can't carry in places where Federal Emplyees spend their work hours. This discussion has been held on the forum before.

As far as them checking you out, they still don't have a right to stop you unless they have RAS to believe that you have, are or will be engaged in criminal activity. The gun on your hip does not qualify. Doesn't mean they won't try though.

TBG

crash5150 · Mar 15, 2012

The Big Guy said:
The law I believe only states that you can't carry in places where Federal Emplyees spend their work hours. This discussion has been held on the forum before.

TBG

Who is really good at the search function for that. I'm horrible as the search function. I'm sure it would be an interested read. Gray area for where they spend the work hours.

OC-moto450r · Jun 2, 2012

Just so you know where RRCNCA boundries are...

2A

jdholmes · Jun 6, 2012

If their park is not covered under the new laws for federal parks than why would the buildings be off limits? Just curious if that's a for sure thing.

Vegassteve · Jun 6, 2012

jdholmes said:
If their park is not covered under the new laws for federal parks than why would the buildings be off limits? Just curious if that's a for sure thing.

Nearly every federal building is off limits. Makes ZERO sense. Not sure why no one has ever gone after this. If they restricted the 1st amend you bet the leftys would have been all over it.

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