Connecticut Resident Wants to Shoot In NY

bushwacker said:

hummm can I make a lot of money bringing handguns to ny:lol: if so how much should i ask

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You should ask for the state minimum 3 1/2 years in prison instead of the state max of 15.

Actually reading the law the way it was written, it seems that the gun can be considered loaded even it there is ammo present anywhere at the same time as the weapon is present. mag or no mag. As a LEO I think it's really grasping and just ammo for a plea, but it still real and from case law that exists, officers have made the arrest and DA's have decided to prosecute, with the verdicts being uphelp.
What do you think after reading this?

As featured at the 'New York Criminal Attorney Blog' as published by Tilem & Campbell:

Posted On: March 23, 2009 by John Campbell
New York Gun Laws - When Your Unloaded Gun Is Really Loaded

Tilem & Campbell is fortunate to have former Firearms Trafficking prosecutor Peter H. Tilem as its Senior Partner able to advise clients on all aspects of New York gun possession. Under New York law, the severity of a Criminal Possession of a Weapon charge dealing with a firearm can hinge on whether the firearm was loaded or not. For example, one may be charged with Criminal Possession of a Weapon (CPW) in the Fourth Degree for simply possessing a firearm [See PL 265.01(1)]. Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree does not require that the firearm be loaded. Therefore, one is guilty of CPW 4th if they simply possess an unloaded firearm without proper licensing. Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the 4th degree is an “A” misdemeanor that carries up to one year in jail.

However, if one possess a loaded firearm outside their home or business, the charge is CPW 2nd, a “C” felony which carries a mandatory minimum 3 ½ year to a maximum 15 years in state prison. [See PL 265.03(3); PL 70.02(3)(b)]. Therefore, if you possess an operable firearm outside your home or place of business, the difference between facing an “A” misdemeanor (CPW 4th) which carries up to one year in jail with no mandatory minimum (which means probation is possible) and the “C” felony (CPW 2nd) which carries a mandatory minimum of 3 ½ years in state prison has everything to do with whether the firearm was loaded.

Here’s the problem. Your unloaded gun might be considered loaded under New York law. Under the Penal Law, a “Loaded firearm” is defined as any firearm actually loaded with ammunition or any firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses ammunition for that firearm. [See PL 265.00(15) for the exact definition of “loaded firearm”]. Therefore, the term loaded firearm means not only a truly loaded firearm but also the contemporaneous possession of an unloaded firearm and ammunition for that firearm. Accordingly, under the law of New York State, an unloaded firearm may actually be considered a loaded firearm.

For more information or if you have been charged with any weapons offense, contact Tilem & Campbell toll-free at 1-877-377-8666 or visit us on the web at www.tilemandcampbell.com. For more information about New York’s gun laws, visit www.HandGunAttorney.com.

Source - http://www.newyorkcriminalattorneybl...n_your_un.html

Thanks

Thanks for all the responses. So basically, the only way I can get this gun from NJ to CT is to have him sell it to me and ship it from a gun store to a gun store in CT? If I'm hearing you right? That sucks, but if thats the case than thats the case...stupid laws. Thanks for bringing up NY too, I don't know why I didn't consider that, unless in my haste, I thought he was going to magically appear in CT from NJ. He would have to have a permit to possess a firearm in the place of origin and destination. I wonder if there is a place in NJ where he could throw the gun to me without crossing the border...short of that, it looks like I'm out of luck.

ronmanci said:

Actually reading the law the way it was written, it seems that the gun can be considered loaded even it there is ammo present anywhere at the same time as the weapon is present. mag or no mag. As a LEO I think it's really grasping and just ammo for a plea, but it still real and from case law that exists, officers have made the arrest and DA's have decided to prosecute, with the verdicts being uphelp.
What do you think after reading this?

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OMG that is what I told you last month when we had this discussion...

A loaded weapon is just as loaded if the rounds were sitting on the floor instead of in a magazine. The question is whether FOPA requires the magazines to be empty for transport, and no one has clarified that yet....

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http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...n-in-vehicle&p=1452477&viewfull=1#post1452477

A magazine with ammunition is not a "handgun;" a handgun in one box and a box of ammunition in another box is a "loaded handgun."

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http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...n-in-vehicle&p=1452938&viewfull=1#post1452938

If it is NYS law we are talking about, the mag has no part in the equation; the ammunition could be tucked up my rectum and the gun would be considered just as loaded as if the loaded magazine was sitting in it.

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http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...n-in-vehicle&p=1453326&viewfull=1#post1453326

An out of state resident with ammunition for their legally owned handgun must have a legal origin and destination, if not, the state law applies and they have a loaded "firearm" within the terms of state law which has nothing to do with magazines or locked containers for the ammunition etc.

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http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...n-in-vehicle&p=1452198&viewfull=1#post1452198

the distinction for "loaded" within the PL encompasses the mere possession of loose rounds

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http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...n-in-vehicle&p=1452428&viewfull=1#post1452428

Ur killin me here guy.

Shimano091 said:

Thanks for all the responses. So basically, the only way I can get this gun from NJ to CT is to have him sell it to me and ship it from a gun store to a gun store in CT? If I'm hearing you right? That sucks, but if thats the case than thats the case...stupid laws. Thanks for bringing up NY too, I don't know why I didn't consider that, unless in my haste, I thought he was going to magically appear in CT from NJ. He would have to have a permit to possess a firearm in the place of origin and destination. I wonder if there is a place in NJ where he could throw the gun to me without crossing the border...short of that, it looks like I'm out of luck.

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Its not exactly that you have to have a license or permit in the destination state, its just that you must be in legal possession at the destination. You could transport to PA for example without a PA LTCF because simple possession does not require a license.

Diverse residents need to do handgun and long gun transfers through an FFL.

emsjeep said:

OMG that is what I told you last month when we had this discussion...


http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...n-in-vehicle&p=1452477&viewfull=1#post1452477


http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...n-in-vehicle&p=1452938&viewfull=1#post1452938

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...n-in-vehicle&p=1453326&viewfull=1#post1453326

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...n-in-vehicle&p=1452198&viewfull=1#post1452198

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...n-in-vehicle&p=1452428&viewfull=1#post1452428

Ur killin me here guy.

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I haven't given up yet, still trying to find it. Just a bit time consumeing but I swear I read it. I hope it wasn't something CA that I read. But i'll keep working on it. The definition that I am trying to find described a magazine to be " part of the handgun ".

And I don't want to argue since we now seem to get along and agree on most, but that's not really what I understood you to say earlier.

I say a weapon could be considered loaded in NYS with ammo. in the mag. seperate from the handgun , and according to the statute, it is. Even worse, it can be considered loaded without a loaded mag. Just by having ammo in the vacinity of the weapon.....

Is that what you feel to be the case also? And if that is what you were trying to convay to me, then I apologize.

The only thing I think being conveyed loud and clear in this thread is LEAVE YOUR GUNS HOME. Not saying I support or agree with it, just interpreting NYS law which will lock up anyone for possession of a firearm legal or not.

ronmanci said:

I haven't given up yet, still trying to find it. Just a bit time consumeing but I swear I read it. I hope it wasn't something CA that I read. But i'll keep working on it. The definition that I am trying to find described a magazine to be " part of the handgun ".

And I don't want to argue since we now seem to get along and agree on most, but that's not really what I understood you to say earlier.

I say a weapon could be considered loaded in NYS with ammo. in the mag. seperate from the handgun , and according to the statute, it is. Even worse, it can be considered loaded without a loaded mag. Just by having ammo in the vacinity of the weapon.....

Is that what you feel to be the case also? And if that is what you were trying to convay to me, then I apologize.

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You don't need to apologize, but yes, that is the size of it. If you have a single round of ammunition under the floor mat of your car and a gun in the locked box in the trunk, it is loaded IF when it gets sent to the lab that round of ammunition can be used to discharge the firearm. It is a matter of degrees of offense as you pointed out though, and in any event, the definition of loaded/unloaded in the NYS PL doesn't apply to FOPA. While FOPA is unclear in regards to protected magazines and protected types of ammunition possession of ammunition in New York is not illegal like possessing hollow points in NJ, and so long as you abide by the federal guidelines you should be OK.

Why don't you have your family member, father-in-law was it? apply for a non-resident Ct. permit? Then he would be legal at both the origin and destination. Of course the transportation & loaded weapon laws still apply but compliance with those are feasible if you are careful.

Kalifornia Clarification:

emsjeep said:

You don't need to apologize, but yes, that is the size of it. If you have a single round of ammunition under the floor mat of your car and a gun in the locked box in the trunk, it is loaded IF when it gets sent to the lab that round of ammunition can be used to discharge the firearm. It is a matter of degrees of offense as you pointed out though, and in any event, the definition of loaded/unloaded in the NYS PL doesn't apply to FOPA. While FOPA is unclear in regards to protected magazines and protected types of ammunition possession of ammunition in New York is not illegal like possessing hollow points in NJ, and so long as you abide by the federal guidelines you should be OK.

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Hey New York from a IANANY (I Am Not A New Yorker):

Since Kali has been mentioned on this thread, I will add this:

People v. Clark (45 Cal.App.4th 1147 (1996)
The court has ruled that ammo must be in a position where it can be fired, in order for the gun to be considered "loaded". A magazine laying on the floorboard has not placed ammo in the gun, and in a position to be fired.

A loaded speedloader in your locked carry box that also contains your S&W 629, while resting on your lap while you drive your car, is not a loaded weapon, nor a violation of any Kali law.

A Glock 22 in your back pack with a loaded magazine taped to the slide of your G22 does not constitute a loaded or concealed weapon as long as your back pack's opening is secured with a lock.

If you are not in a "sensitive" building or GFSZ, New Yorkers can carry in a holster, fully exposed, an unloaded handgun, with loaded magazines in mag holsters on the same belt in Kalifornia--this includes Yosemite, Lassen, Sequoua, Kings Canyon, and other National Parks.

All of the above examples apply to law-abiding New York residents visiting Kalifornia.

See, we are not the worst state in the union!

markm

press1280 said:

Does NY not have an exemption for hunting/recreational shooting? Even NJ has one as long as you transport directly to/from the range/home.

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NY only has an exemption for organized shooting matches. I did a 3 gun match at West Point and made a point of going straight to the base and then straight to the CT border.

A touchier issue is the fact that I shot the match with all post-ban high capacity magazines. I was told by a match organizer that it was legal for the same reasons as the handgun. But I couldn't find any statute relating to that.

Just for yucks I called the branch of the NY State Police local to West Point. The guy laughed when I told him about the situation. He told me that they had better things to do than wait just off post stopping cars and checking them for high capacity magazines.

Don

One thing I have not seen noted: NY definition of firearm = federal definition of handgun. PL 265.00 (that is a pistol or revolver or other weapon with a barrel length of less than 18"

Many years ago (1967) I was given a pistol by my FIL. It had belonged to a NYC LEO, when he died the LEO's son gave it to my FIL, and my FIL gave it to me. MY FIL lived in NY state, and at the time I was there with them preliminary to being deployed to Vietnam.

I now know why my FIL wanted that pistol out of the state of NY...