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Almost Shot a Copper Head Snake Today.

j4l

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I knew you were going to do that. You can't pass up informing people about them there snakes.

And, higher velocity, and ME ratings, with reduced chance of over-penetrating..



lol. classic.
 

Sig229

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Dec 14, 2006
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I really dont want to get bit by any snake. In the grasslands of Colorado & Wyoming I almost got bit by a Mohave rattlesnake.

Here's a couple of pics I took of it:
Grasslands_Rattler_2.jpg

Grasslands_Rattler_snake.jpg
 
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()pen(arry

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I spent some years dealing in venomous reptiles, and as someone who doesn't do anything without knowing plenty about it in advance, as an amateur herpetologist.

Snakes are ambush predators. They derive their ability to take prey and defend against predators from their ability to hide and surprise, a huge component of which is their ability to strike from distance. All snakes can swim, and some are comfortable in water.

However, terrestrial snakes cannot strike effectively while swimming. The few terrestrial snakes that hunt fish do so like hand-fishers. Snakes can't coil and launch in the water. Thus, terrestrial snakes use water as a means of travel or escape, but always insecurely. Copperheads are known to swim frequently, and therefore there are numerous recorded incidents of copperhead bites in the water. However, a copperhead will never demonstrate aggression in the water, even defensively. If it is swimming toward you, it is only because it does not know you're there, or recognize that you're animate. The most effective defense against a water-borne snake in the US (we have no naturally aquatic snakes) is to splash water at it and swim away. Not kidding.

Having said all that, I begrudge no one without this knowledge the self defense they see fit. I hate to see an animal needlessly harmed, so education is always best, but in the circumstances given, I find no fault. I would hope, however, that such an incident would trigger investigation and understanding.
 

Sig229

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I spent some years dealing in venomous reptiles, and as someone who doesn't do anything without knowing plenty about it in advance, as an amateur herpetologist.

Snakes are ambush predators. They derive their ability to take prey and defend against predators from their ability to hide and surprise, a huge component of which is their ability to strike from distance. All snakes can swim, and some are comfortable in water.

However, terrestrial snakes cannot strike effectively while swimming. The few terrestrial snakes that hunt fish do so like hand-fishers. Snakes can't coil and launch in the water. Thus, terrestrial snakes use water as a means of travel or escape, but always insecurely. Copperheads are known to swim frequently, and therefore there are numerous recorded incidents of copperhead bites in the water. However, a copperhead will never demonstrate aggression in the water, even defensively. If it is swimming toward you, it is only because it does not know you're there, or recognize that you're animate. The most effective defense against a water-borne snake in the US (we have no naturally aquatic snakes) is to splash water at it and swim away. Not kidding.

Having said all that, I begrudge no one without this knowledge the self defense they see fit. I hate to see an animal needlessly harmed, so education is always best, but in the circumstances given, I find no fault. I would hope, however, that such an incident would trigger investigation and understanding.

I appreciate your well thought out post and agree.
I didnt want to shoot the Copperhead, and glad I didnt have to. The same goes for the Rattlesnake I posted pics of a few posts above this one.

I understand when Im out in the wilderness, I am in they're territory and Im the "intruder".

On the other hand, if a spider crawles on me, Im emptying mags! (just kidding)
 

Dreamer

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Grennsboro NC
Actually...



Also, factor in that the adult snake has longer fangs with larger hollow spaces allowing for deeper penetration and more venom flow, and generally have greater accuracy.


It appears that there is a controversy in this issue, because I have found several sites that say this:

Surprisingly, young copperheads are in many ways more dangerous than their parents. Often, an adult copperhead will deliver a “dry bite” meaning their bite doesn’t inject venom into the victim. Not so with the babies - they do all that they can to protect themselves, even if it means giving up their venom reserve.

http://www.wildwnc.org/node/183
 

()pen(arry

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It appears that there is a controversy in this issue, because I have found several sites that say this:

"I read it on the Internet..."

;) Just giving you a hard time.

Look, it's like the "most deadly" debate: there are so many variables that lists become mostly pointless. It is, absolutely, true that juvenile venomous snakes, by and large, have an envenomation rate above that of adult snakes. It is also true that juvenile snakes are far less common and far less likely to be in situations in which human contact is likely, due to their natural tendency to be less outgoing. It is interesting to note that juvenile snakes bites can have higher lethality; it does not inform proper human response, and it is not prescriptive.
 

()pen(arry

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I didnt want to shoot the Copperhead, and glad I didnt have to.

We haven't interacted, before, but from what I've read from you, your reasonable circumspection isn't surprising, and I appreciate and applaud it.

I have a special place in my heart for snakes, and I appreciate when people give them a fair cop. I'm also not going to jump up anyone's butt about them (unless you're one of those ignorant, redneck rattlesnake "hunter" ********). I really wouldn't have thought any ill if you'd shot the copperhead, but your restraint is commendable.

Good on you, and I'm happy to provide info/advice to anyone interested.
 

()pen(arry

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For what it's worth, by the way, I've been bitten, and envenomated, by a bushmaster. It sucked super, super bad. I'd genuinely rather be punched in the nuts multiple times than experience that again. Objectively, I deserved it, as I gave in to exhaustion and complacency, leading to the bite. I was mucking with an animal that just wanted be left alone. That incident eventually led to me getting out of the business (that and disturbing dreams after listening to a room full of crated Gaboon Vipers hissing like so many James Earl Joneses).

I don't oppose the venomous reptile trade. I also don't have any sympathy for anyone in it getting the comeuppance I received. :)
 

jdholmes

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Jan 27, 2011
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Henderson, Nevada
I cannot say I wouldn't shoot one if I come across it suddenly...my wife might make me. LoL...but I do respect nature, so I wouldn't go looking for him.
 

tcmech

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the only good snakes have already been made into boots, wallets, belts, etc.
 

Sig229

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For what it's worth, by the way, I've been bitten, and envenomated, by a bushmaster.

I was wondering...

Back when I lived in Colorado, a man who was bitten by a rattler about a year prior came into a doctors office ( I was there for a check-up) and could hear in the next examining room. His doctor was a young woman and knew he had been bitten before and it was well documented at the local hospital and in his records.

He was complaining of chronic pain from the bite that happened a year ago and she treated him awful about it.
She said "How could a bite from a snake that happened a year ago, still cause you pain? Are you sure your not here searching for pills?" The man I could tell was not happy and he just wanted to get a specialist for such bites and proper pain management.

So my question is, can a person who has been bitten and received a large dose of venom, still have pain from the bite long afterward?
 
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Citizen

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SNIP So my question is, can a person who has been bitten and received a large dose of venom, still have pain from the bite long afterward?

Yes, but the answer is too general to useful. Yes, because a person can experience pain from any injury in the past. Recall the amputees who still get ghost pains from missing limbs.

A little more precisely, I should think it pretty possible with snake bite. Pit viper venom is essentially a specialized saliva that pre-digests the prey. Works great on mouse meat. But, the dose is a little small to pre-digest an entire human. But, imagine the nerve damage from having some of your foot, leg, hand, or arm pre-digested. I can see that causing on-going pain.

I don't know that it does; I'm speculating a little bit. But, I could believe anyone who says he has pain from a previous pit viper bite just on the pre-digestion nerve damage idea. Certainly because of the amputee ghost pain idea.
 

()pen(arry

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So my question is, can a person who has been bitten and received a large dose of venom, still have pain from the bite long afterward?

Like Citizen said, nerve damage often results in long-term pain and discomfort. Rattlesnakes have primarily hemotoxic venom, the name of which suggests that it acts upon the blood, but in reality hemotoxins also destroy tissue in general, which makes them effectively cytotoxic (though there's a specific distinction between the two). Some rattlesnakes also have neurotoxins in their venom, which interfere with neurotransmission and can have long-term/permanent effects. Short version: rattlesnake bites can result in long-term, even life-long, pain, and it's not at all uncommon. Sounds like a doctor who didn't know very much about what she was treating. Sadly, the Fedgub's war on pain medication and pain doctors has made far too many doctors gun-shy about prescribing opiates (aka the pain killers that actually work).
 

Citizen

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Like Citizen said, nerve damage often results in long-term pain and discomfort. Rattlesnakes have primarily hemotoxic venom, the name of which suggests that it acts upon the blood, but in reality hemotoxins also destroy tissue in general, which makes them effectively cytotoxic (though there's a specific distinction between the two). Some rattlesnakes also have neurotoxins in their venom, which interfere with neurotransmission and can have long-term/permanent effects. Short version: rattlesnake bites can result in long-term, even life-long, pain, and it's not at all uncommon. Sounds like a doctor who didn't know very much about what she was treating. Sadly, the Fedgub's war on pain medication and pain doctors has made far too many doctors gun-shy about prescribing opiates (aka the pain killers that actually work).

Great point! I didn't even consider it. Thank you for pointing it out.

Also, nice twist on the term fedgov. Fedgub! Hahahahaha!! I love it.
 

since9

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Jan 14, 2010
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Folks, I grew up in Florida, encountered several copperhead in the woods there, and two more, including one in Virginia while I was climbing a face with my best friend and the future best man at my wedding.

They're fairly benign. Keep you're eyes peeled, don't let them bite. If they do, seek medical attention immediately, as it's highly effective, but ONLY if you seek it IMMEDIATELY!!! Seriously, did I say "immediately?" Does 20 minutes to live or die ring any bells, bugs in your ears, or clue-birds?

Not to be trifled with.
 

eamelhorn

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Jan 19, 2012
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ripley wv
Throw a Garder snake on me im dead in half a second, if im not dead in the frist half of second, your dead the within the rest of that second, LOL, I'd scream like a girl and fall down dead of heart failure, cant stand the thought of even touching any kinda snake. If they rattle there a rattle sanke if they dont there a copper head, (in my mind),
 
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