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Police encounter at softball game

Savvyshamrock

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
21
Location
Las Vegas
Oh, yes, by all means, summon armed strangers to any situation which makes you vaguely uncomfortable. That sounds like a fantastic idea.

/sarcasm

Shame on you.

Shame on me for protecting myself. Agreed. How dare I! In that case, why do I even need a gun??? I should be perfectly willing to overlook things that I feel are unsafe and possibly suspicious. I should be completely ignorant of people and situations that pose hazards or dangers and calmly and politely submit to being robbed, raped and killed in my own home because I shouldn't call security or police if someone is slinking around my neighborhood looking in windows. I shouldn't defend myself at all or make the areas around me safe for myself and my family.

Oh what was I thinking! Thank you for showing me the error of my ways!

Silly, huh? =)

I know lots of people on this forum think that police and government are the big meanies, and you are more than entitled to have that opinion. I don't have that opinion though. The job of the police is to protect and serve. The security that we (the people in my area) pay for is to protect our community. So heck yeah I'm going to call them when needed. Do I do it when someone is just walking down the street with their dog? No. But if I observe someone that I feel is acting in a way that needs to be checked out, heck yeah I'm calling in help. Do I think that the lady was right to be alarmed? Not really, but that's not where my threshold is. But I in no way feel that I should put my instincts on the backburner because other people don't feel that the people who are paid to protect me should be alerted when things are wrong. No shame in being aware of danger around you and knowing when you should involve others. First thing they teach you in self defense is to weigh the actions of everyone around you and listen when something feels off.
 

NVCowboy

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
12
Location
Wild West
You mean like the laws in AZ that were so controversial? I had no outward opinion on the topic, but I'm also the whitest white girl in any room. =)

I'm perfectly fine that people don't agree with me, but having been at Virginia Tech, I feel better that if someone speaks up that something feels wrong, that it's checked out. If I see someone poking around looking fishy, I call security or the police. My version of fishy is probably more lax than the lady in the stands, but they didn't harass the guy they only verified that everything was on the up and up.

I simply stated my perspective which is something that each and every person develops due to their own circumstances. Feel free to argue how I'm wrong, but you are as unlikely to change my mind as I am to change yours. =)

You're not "wrong" but here's how the detective's wife and your definition of suspicious differ greatly. The wife saw a gentleman with a weapon on his hip. Now whether or not she asked the husband nicely about the guy or nagged him in the "what the blankety-blank is that yahoo doing carrying a pistol" style is up for debate(not really, but yeah moving on). My guess is that she nagged him about it (because she's a detectives wife and thinks by marriage she too is wearing his badge, military officer's wives have been known to pull the same power trip) and here's why. If she would have asked him nicely, the detective would have looked back, seen the OP in his dress shirt just hanging out doing his thing, told the wife that the gentleman is well within his rights to carry that weapon in Nevada, and they both would have went back to watching the game. No harm, no foul, no crazy text messages to the office. IMO when "Delta Whiskies"(dependant wives/husbands) pull crap like that and the hubby/wife LEO decides that it's easier to cow-tow instead of being nagged to death, especially when the LEO should CLEARLY know better, they both should be brought into the supervisor's office and told to back the he77 off most rickey-tick before the LEO gets to go out looking for another job. As much as I hate to make the comparison, in the military what your dependents do reflects on you and you can/will be punished for their behavior. Maybe the standard needs to be extended to LEOs??
 

Savvyshamrock

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
21
Location
Las Vegas
I can understand you calling the cops if you think something is wrong but the point others are trying to make is why didn't the cops just observe. Why did they even have to make contact? The fact they even spoke to him because someone fell uncomfortable about someone doing nothing wrong is infact wrong.

To me it comes down to they didn't harass, they explained. I'd rather know what's going on than be ignorant about it. If someone reports me for something, I'd like to know about it.
 

NVCowboy

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
12
Location
Wild West
To me it comes down to they didn't harass, they explained. I'd rather know what's going on than be ignorant about it. If someone reports me for something, I'd like to know about it.

They may not have harassed the OP, but I'll bet 10 to 1 that our haplessly whipped detective got harassed plenty on the way home in the car and even more when they got into the house. I'd be willing to go even further and say that he spent the night on the couch. Let's not forget the whip cracking sounds that were made in the office the next day by all his co-workers.....:lol:

*Did I say that outloud? Yup I sure did*
 
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Savvyshamrock

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
21
Location
Las Vegas
They may not have harassed the OP, but I'll bet 10 to 1 that our haplessly whipped detective got harassed plenty on the way home in the car and even more when they got into the house. I'd be willing to go even further and say that he spent the night on the couch. Let's not forget the whip cracking sounds that were made in the office the next day by all his co-workers.....:lol:

Stuff like this just goes to remind me that I'm the man in my relationship. =) I could totally see my husband having her reaction and taking it out on me. Good thing he's cute... =)
 

ed2276

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
366
Location
Las Vegas,NV
The most confusing thing is how can a detectives wife who is with her husband who is open carrying be upset when a pleb like myself does the same thing.

Don't you know that only the sanctified priesthood of state violence (as Will Grigg calls police officers) are worthy to carry firearms in public?

On the other hand, I was glad to hear how Henderson PD handled the situation. Well done, HPD!
 
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ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
Don't you know that only the sanctified priesthood of state violence (as Will Grigg calls police officers) are worthy to carry firearms in public?

On the other hand, I was glad to hear how Henderson PD handled the situation. Well done, HPD!

Will Grigg is an American hero, and a fellow Idahoan, I am proud to say. I saw him and his beautiful family at a Ron Paul speech here in Boise not too long ago. It is a damn shame that he no longer has his own radio show.
 

Vegassteve

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
1,763
Location
Las Vegas NV, ,
You mean like the laws in AZ that were so controversial? I had no outward opinion on the topic, but I'm also the whitest white girl in any room. =)

I'm perfectly fine that people don't agree with me, but having been at Virginia Tech, I feel better that if someone speaks up that something feels wrong, that it's checked out. )

If you were truly at va tech then you should have hoped others were armed to stop it. Rather than just randomly stopping some asian guy.

I dont know you, but I know your thinking is dangerous to me as a American.
 

carsontech

Activist Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
529
Location
Anderson, SC
I hate to burst your bubble, but the Supreme Court of D.C. has ruled that this is not so.

When it comes to crime, police are glorified janitors with a badge and a gun.

Here is a cite for that, BTW:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

There are numberous other cases that ruled police have no duty, or no constitutional duty, to protect citizens. Here's a site that list several of them:

http://www.endtimesreport.com/NO_AFFIRMATIVE_DUTY.htm

Here are some cites to the cases mentioned in the URL above.

South v. Marylandhttp://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/59/396/case.html

DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeShaney_v._Winnebago_County

Bowers v. Devito http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=19801228486FSupp742_11112.xml&docbase=CSLWAR1-1950-1985

Hartzler v. City of San Jose http://www.lawlink.com/research/caselevel3/51629

Davidson v. City of Westminster http://scocal.stanford.edu/opinion/davidson-v-city-westminster-28281

Westbrooks v. State of California http://law.justia.com/cases/california/calapp3d/173/1203.html
 
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Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Shame on me for protecting myself. Agreed. How dare I! In that case, why do I even need a gun??? I should be perfectly willing to overlook things that I feel are unsafe and possibly suspicious. I should be completely ignorant of people and situations that pose hazards or dangers and calmly and politely submit to being robbed, raped and killed in my own home because I shouldn't call security or police if someone is slinking around my neighborhood looking in windows. I shouldn't defend myself at all or make the areas around me safe for myself and my family.

Oh what was I thinking! Thank you for showing me the error of my ways!

Silly, huh? =)

I know lots of people on this forum think that police and government are the big meanies, and you are more than entitled to have that opinion. I don't have that opinion though. The job of the police is to protect and serve. The security that we (the people in my area) pay for is to protect our community. So heck yeah I'm going to call them when needed. Do I do it when someone is just walking down the street with their dog? No. But if I observe someone that I feel is acting in a way that needs to be checked out, heck yeah I'm calling in help. Do I think that the lady was right to be alarmed? Not really, but that's not where my threshold is. But I in no way feel that I should put my instincts on the backburner because other people don't feel that the people who are paid to protect me should be alerted when things are wrong. No shame in being aware of danger around you and knowing when you should involve others. First thing they teach you in self defense is to weigh the actions of everyone around you and listen when something feels off.

It is good that you have responsibly chosen to protect yourself and practice situational awareness. That said, it is a rather large leap to feel threatened by a man watching a soft ball game absenting any negative conduct. Your threshold and that of the officer's wife are not the question - the feelings are not relative when the reality of what is actually transpiring is counter to the imagination of either.

BTW - the police are not bound to protect anyone - so sayeth SCOTUS.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP It has been my experience that some officers lie in their official reports, make up lies to cover their own ineptitude & lack of knowledge about the law, testilie in court... why wouldn't they lie to their co-workers any other time?

I think there is a difference here, though. In a situation like this, detective cop would be lying to other cops about what they are being asked to investigate. The things you mentioned are not particularly lies to other cops intended to mislead other cops. I suspect that generally the brotherhood goes too deep for that. And, even if it didn't, a text is traceable back to the person who sent it, so detective cop is in a position where the end-recipients of the lie are going to know who lied to them.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP...I feel better that if someone speaks up that something feels wrong, that it's checked out. If I see someone poking around looking fishy, I call security or the police.

If the OPer was not exercising a fundamental human right, an enumerated right, I might agree.

You see, supporting a police check of an OCer merely for OC includes the premise that exercising a fundamental, enumerated right somehow is worthy of suspicion. Inasmuch as government has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt over the last nine centuries that it cannot be trusted with rights, this would not be a good policy.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP If this were a different situation where the OP opened fire on the stands due to baby mamma drama and no one had came to check it out after the text, everyone would be outraged.

This is a political consideration. Rights are not susceptible to the the political problems of a government agency; those problems have no place at the table at all.

One of the primary reasons for enumerating a right is to remove it from political pressures. Otherwise, the majority would always outvote the minority on the minority's rights.

Moreover, as a political problem, it's pretty pathetic that police cannot (won't) see the too obvious solution. Police already have somewhat of a leadership position in many communities. And, this is still America. All the police would have to do is stand up and forcefully declare that they will not violate anyone's rights, nor view enumerated rights with suspicion. In this country that would be a no-lose argument. But, police are too busy using that exact kind of argument to justify their encroachments and intrusions, so it's little wonder we very rarely hear police using it to defend not intruding.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
The gentleman you quoted and replied to is usually too polite to answer a post like this. I'm not. I also re-read the original post and the follow-ons. Until 1hr 12 min later, when to OP stated "It was holstered", there was no mention of how the OP was actually carrying. Even Citizen jumped in with"...lied about Mexican carry.", when method had not been clearly posted.

The cops were there responding to a call. That they informed the OC of why they were checking him out should be a plus; they apparently did not feel a need to ask him for ID or explanation.

OP: Others have posted about establishing background for your OC. Go for it; it may be useful some day.

Read the second post by citizen. It was pretty clear to me he was not carrying MS.
 

robert1970

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
111
Location
idaho
Just curious, what was your sidearm of choice, and, type and brand of holster?

I'm just always interested in whar others carry. I have a Colt 1911 and Ruger LC9.

The 1911 I carry in Serpa and the lc9 in a Desantis iwb with the shirt tucked behind so it shows the grip and top of holster.

i have a taurus compact 357 i use fo cc and a springfeild xd in 45
 

Merlin

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
487
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Clearly what was missing in this interaction was a fist bump. I agree that HPD had no reason to contact OP, BUT, I am ok with it as long as it is respectful. I don't mind a contact as long as it has no accusatory tone. If the cops had specifically pointed out the wife in the stand, and then given OP a fist-bump (or equivalent friendly gesture of recognition), I would feel better about it.

That may not make sense without some clarification, methinks.

A while ago, I came to the conclusion that the only way to make real success on this stuff is not to beat "THE MAN", but to infiltrate. Over the course of a generation, federal, state, and local agencies can be infected (in a good way) with people of the right mindset. While we can gain a lot of ground from the outside, we can gain even more ground from the inside (think Oathkeepers). People of conscience, that respect civil liberties, and refuse to violate them, even if it is part of their job.

Our job, or at least one of them, is to raise/convert that generation. We must sway public opinion in our favor by introducing as many people as we can to firearms and the related civil liberties. I have started carrying the tri-fold pamphlets just in the last few days, and have already given out about a dozen. Whenever I go into a store, almost without fail, I would get asked about it. Often by people who have just moved to NV from CA. First, I give them a hearty "Welcome to Nevada!". Then I give them the pamphlet, and discuss the high points. I also give them one of my cards (I do IT consulting), and tell them if they would ever like to go out to the range and get familiar, I would be happy to take them to my club range (Desert Sportsman). I have had several people take me up on this in recent months. I am currently working on the school nurse at my kids elem. school.

Ok, so, the reason for that whole diatribe is this: If the cops had come over and been like "Hey man, just so you know, we got called out because of a 413 (MWAG), but clearly there is no problem here. You're all good by us, and sorry for the intrusion. We just thought you'd like to know. The PR (person reporting)is right over there (points)."

I totally get the argument that there is no reason for contact. That's true, there is no reason for contact. But that doesn't mean that contact is a fully negative thing. I welcome a contact that affirms what I am doing, and exhibits some respect for doing so. Is there no such thing as a positive contact? To me, positive contacts are an excellent way to gauge the success rate of our agenda. Not only for our benefit, but for the benefit of others. In this case the PR just learned something. As did all the people within earshot of her. What if 1 more person in the crowd will OC now, because they just learned that it is legal. I consider that success worth a little contact. AS LONG AS IT IS RESPECTFUL. That part can't be stressed enough.
 

Merlin

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
487
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
What if 1 more person in the crowd will OC now, because they just learned that it is legal.

It occurs to me that it's worthwhile to add here that I had my CCW for several years before I learned that Nevada was OC-legal. Never mentioned in my CCW class. It wasn't until a friend mentioned it to me that I went and looked it up, and have been (mostly) OC ever since. Now I take every opportunity I get to school others on it, and invite them to OCDO. All because one person mentioned it. That's how this works.

You know what, I think I am going to do up some OCDO cards, with my basic contact info, and the web address. Hmmm, OCDO should do that. I wonder...
 
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