• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

DOJ Concealed Carry rules out

HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol
Thanks Auric for posting on fb.

Here's the Certification Document requirements.

...applicant has successfully completed a firearms safety or training course must include all of the following information:

The applicant’s name.

The name of the firearms safety or training course.

The length in hours of the firearms safety or training course.

The date on which the applicant completed the firearms safety or training course.

The city and state in which the applicant completed the firearms safety or training course.

The name, address, and telephone number of the person or entity responsible for the firearms safety or training course. This may be an individual instructor, a national or state organization, a law enforcement agency, an educational institution, a firearms training school, or another public or private institution or organization.

The name of the instructor who taught the firearms safety or training course to the applicant and the name of the agency or organization that certified the instructor.

A signed statement by the instructor who taught the firearms safety or training course to the applicant affirming that the course satisfied the definition of a firearms safety or training course in s. Jus 17.03(8) and that the applicant successfully completed the course. An affirmation that the applicant merely attended the course is not sufficient to satisfy this requirement.





13(8)

“Firearms safety or training course”
means a course that is reasonably calculated to instruct, practice, and test the student’s comprehension and application of firearm safety rules
and safe firearm handling, that includes at least four hours of instructor-led training, and that provides a certificate or affidavit of successful completion that satisfies the content requirements of s. Jus 17.05(2).


Read it and weep.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/67948352/Attorney-General-rules-on-concealed-carry-licenses

----------------------------------------------------------------

I guess my first question is do we now need two certs? If we have to mail one to the asshats at the DOJ we will still need one for our personal records.





Paging the Yellow Cat.

*update*


The Yellow Cat has been paged.
 
Last edited:

bluehighways

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
142
Location
wisconsin
So now I'm wondering if a copy of my Hunter's Safety card is sufficient enough or if I will need to track down the guys who taught it, try to figure out how many hours we spent in class, request a letter from one of them affirming I did pass the class and it meets the requirements, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam.
 

Mlutz

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
758
Location
, ,
I'm going to come out and say, (and I very well could be wrong, it happens all the time.) that your hunters safety should be good to go. As well as permits that you currently hold, that are valid, or have ever been valid, that were not revoked for cause. I think the post was talking about just taking a class. Not for the rules on other ways to "earn" your license... I hope... Maybe I'll try the link again, and hope it will not crash my laptop... Again...
 

Mlutz

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
758
Location
, ,
(h) A copy of a current or expired license held by the applicant indicating that the

187 applicant is or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state, in another state, or in a county or

188 municipality of this state or of another state, provided that the current or expired license has not

189 been revoked for cause. The copy of the current or expired license must be accompanied by the

190 applicant’s signed affirmation that the current or expired license has not been revoked for cause.

191 This affirmation shall be submitted on an affirmation form that shall be prepared by the

192 department and made available to the public on the department’s Internet site.

So, this "affirmation form" is new to me...
On to hunter education,

148 A certificate or affidavit documenting that the applicant has successfully

149 completed the department of natural resources’ hunter education program or a substantially

150 similar program that is established by another state, country, or province and is recognized by the

151 department of natural resources.

Hope this turns out ok. Oh, a link... Yeah...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/67948352/Attorney-General-rules-on-concealed-carry-licenses
 

wiscollector

Banned
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
62
Location
Wisconsin
The wife and I hold a current MN CCW permit.

We are WI residents and as I read it, we can submit the MN CCW and a affidavit and fully comply with all they want.

We dont even have to submit any training docs.

Agree?????????
 

Mlutz

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
758
Location
, ,
The wife and I hold a current MN CCW permit.

We are WI residents and as I read it, we can submit the MN CCW and a affidavit and fully comply with all they want.

We dont even have to submit any training docs.

Agree?????????

Yes...


And no...








The MN CCW IS your training. :p
 

wiscollector

Banned
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
62
Location
Wisconsin
As a WI taxpayer, be prepared for the DOJ to be now sued over this, costing the state unnecessary legal bills.

They most likely will be sued by the NRA.

ALL NRA Certificates are now invalid in WI because they do not contain all the extra info they want.

my NRA certificate is the NRA Basic Pistol and is probably the most popular. It now doesnt meet WI rules.

Its a 8 hour course but NRA doesnt list the hours and other things are needed on them

Luckily I can have the instructor reissue it with the added updated info.

Also, I can just submit my MN CCW so I have all my bases covered.

I would bet NRA sues! Because of the time frame, a emergency injunction is needed to prevent the RULES.

It appears the LAW means nothing when RULES can go against the LAW and become new LAW.

I would hope the WI lawmakers go crazy and put a quick stop to this. The lawmakers are being pissed on by the DOJ and if they take it they are fools.

Its quite funny....."The RULE of LAW" being corrupted by "The DOJ RULES for the LAW".
 
Last edited:

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
So now I'm wondering if a copy of my Hunter's Safety card is sufficient enough or if I will need to track down the guys who taught it, try to figure out how many hours we spent in class, request a letter from one of them affirming I did pass the class and it meets the requirements, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam.
If you can't find it, you can contact the DNR to reissue one. It is less than $10.
As a WI taxpayer, be prepared for the DOJ to be now sued over this, costing the state unnecessary legal bills.

They most likely will be sued by the NRA.

ALL NRA Certificates are now invalid in WI because they do not contain all the extra info they want.

my NRA certificate is the NRA Basic Pistol and is probably the most popular. It now doesnt meet WI rules.

Its a 8 hour course but NRA doesnt list the hours and other things are needed on them

Luckily I can have the instructor reissue it with the added updated info.

Also, I can just submit my MN CCW so I have all my bases covered.

I would bet NRA sues!
I'm sure there will be lawsuits, but I do not know if it would be a gun rights group or a group of individuals.

I'll hold my breathe on the NRA suing. I still don't trust them. If they do, then that trust will build, but it will be a long road for them (to get me to be a member).
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
People, let's not hyperventilate. These are 'emergency rules' and can/will be changed by the legislature. We are screwed for 11/1 but the fight isn't over. Here is what I sent the Governor as well as all my elected representatives:

I just saw the emergency rules and have a few points:

JUS 17.03(8) - 4 hours was NEVER the legislative intent


JUS 17.03(9) - "Instructor led" will exclude the DNR's online hunter safety program. Wording was never in Act 35.


JUS 17.03(c) and (h) - I took the "NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course" and it does not state the number of hours I attended (8) and I do not have a signed statement from the instructor stating the training meets JUS 17.03(8) and that I satisfactorily completed the course. He signed my certificate, it has the date, has the city and state, has the course name, has the NRA logo.


Constitutional Carry would of been so much simpler.


--

Paul L Fisher
 

kemo

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
92
Location
Antigo,WI
Well the DOJ messed this up. Mst be nice to make up your own law. Now let the scrambling begin. The DOJ will tell us atleast we got concealed carry and to be happy and shame on Van Hollen for making up his own law.
 

Cobbersmom

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
179
Location
Minocqua, Wisconsin, ,
So much for a Hunters Safety certificate

The DNR is offering a new pilot program to get the hunter safety cert. and, if the above information is correct, it will be meaningless as far as obtaining proof of training for the cc permit. This is intended to be for people who are familiar with the handling of guns and is the test only. This can be found on the DNR website when searching for the 'Internet/CD" hunter safety. So much for the hunter safety certificate being the means to an end.

{Thank you for your interest in the Hunter Safety Test Out certification exam. There is no classroom instruction, firearm handling or field testing in this pilot program for Hunter Safety certification. It is a written exam only. For this reason inexperienced hunters, and parents having children under 16 years of age, may want to consider attending a traditional Hunter Safety course. To prepare for the exam please follow the instructions on the attached website. http://dnr.wi.gov/org/es/enforcement/safety/huntedtestout.htm

Due to the limited number of seats available and the number of people who have failed to show for exam times on past exam dates your registration will not be accepted until payment for the exam is received. The first 20 people who preregister for a specific exam time AND a check is received made out to DNR in the amount of $10 will have a seat reserved for the exam. Course fees will not be refunded unless you notify me that you cannot attend no later than October 25 in advance of the exam.

Mail the check to: Mail the check to: Jeff Dauterman; DNR Service Center; 223 E. Steinfest Rd.; Antigo, WI 54409

To preregister for the Test Out Exam send an email that includes your full name, current address, DNR Customer ID number and specifies the exam time you want. I will reply and tentatively confirm your exam time. The seat will be held for 3 days to wait for the course fees. Once the course fee is received you will receive another email to confirm your seat is reserved. If the fees are not received within 3 days your seat will be released. You are not registered for the exam until you receive an email from me that confirms your registration.}
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
The DNR is offering a new pilot program to get the hunter safety cert. and, if the above information is correct, it will be meaningless as far as obtaining proof of training for the cc permit. This is intended to be for people who are familiar with the handling of guns and is the test only. This can be found on the DNR website when searching for the 'Internet/CD" hunter safety. So much for the hunter safety certificate being the means to an end.

{Thank you for your interest in the Hunter Safety Test Out certification exam. There is no classroom instruction, firearm handling or field testing in this pilot program for Hunter Safety certification. It is a written exam only. For this reason inexperienced hunters, and parents having children under 16 years of age, may want to consider attending a traditional Hunter Safety course. To prepare for the exam please follow the instructions on the attached website. http://dnr.wi.gov/org/es/enforcement/safety/huntedtestout.htm

Due to the limited number of seats available and the number of people who have failed to show for exam times on past exam dates your registration will not be accepted until payment for the exam is received. The first 20 people who preregister for a specific exam time AND a check is received made out to DNR in the amount of $10 will have a seat reserved for the exam. Course fees will not be refunded unless you notify me that you cannot attend no later than October 25 in advance of the exam.

Mail the check to: Mail the check to: Jeff Dauterman; DNR Service Center; 223 E. Steinfest Rd.; Antigo, WI 54409

To preregister for the Test Out Exam send an email that includes your full name, current address, DNR Customer ID number and specifies the exam time you want. I will reply and tentatively confirm your exam time. The seat will be held for 3 days to wait for the course fees. Once the course fee is received you will receive another email to confirm your seat is reserved. If the fees are not received within 3 days your seat will be released. You are not registered for the exam until you receive an email from me that confirms your registration.}

That is incorrect. The rules state that the hunters safety class certificate is accepted with no hour minimum and no face to face requirement.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
idiots at the DOJ said:
The length in hours of the firearms safety or training course.
Not in the law, can't do that.

idiots at the DOJ said:
The name, address, and telephone number of the person or entity responsible for the firearms safety or training course.
Note to self: look up the info for NRA HQ.

idiots at the DOJ said:
The name of the instructor who taught the firearms safety or training course to the applicant and the name of the agency or organization that certified the instructor.
Already on both NRA & UT documents.

idiots at the DOJ said:
A signed statement by the instructor who taught the firearms safety or training course to the applicant affirming that the course satisfied the definition of a firearms safety or training course in s. Jus 17.03(8) and that the applicant successfully completed the course.
Well, the signed statement of successful completion would be the certificate itself (DUH!).

So as a quick patch/fix (until these rules are blown up), looks like instructors need to print stickers w/ the length of course,
contact info for the national certifying body,
& a statement that the course meets the requirements of the law.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least one motion for an emergency injunction in the next few days, perhaps a week.
 
Last edited:

Trip20

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
526
Location
Wausau Area
That is incorrect. The rules state that the hunters safety class certificate is accepted with no hour minimum and no face to face requirement.

Yup:

(4) TRAINING REQUIREMENTS. (a) The proof of training
requirement under sub. (7) (e) may be met by any of
the following
:
1. A copy of a document, or an affidavit from an
instructor or organization that conducted the course or
program, that indicates the individual completed any of
the following:
a. The hunter education program established under s.
29.591 or a substantially similar program
that is established
by another state, country, or province and that is
recognized by the department of natural resources.
 

kemo

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
92
Location
Antigo,WI
Phone call to DOJ

I just got off the phone with the DOJ. They explained to me that the emergency rules have been sent to the Governor and they have not been signed yet. So what we have seen so far is not in effect yet. Now lets see if the Governor has the backbone to do the right thing.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
paul said:
The rules state that the hunters safety class certificate is accepted with no hour minimum and no face to face requirement.
Not that I disagree with you about HS, Paul, but the law didn't say anything about minimum hours or FTF requirement for any other training, either.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
I just got off the phone with the DOJ. They explained to me that the emergency rules have been sent to the Governor and they have not been signed yet. So what we have seen so far is not in effect yet. Now lets see if the Governor has the backbone to do the right thing.

Not defending, just informing:


I believe the Governor has to sign or veto the whole thing as a package. If it gets sent back, no November 1 applications, I would believe.
 
Top