Concealed carry question, for out of state non-residents

My wife and I are planning a small trip in January to not only celebrate her birthday but our anniversary in February. This trip will be taking us through Texas for a few days and while learning your local laws so that we can legally bring our sidearms, I noticed that Texas may be one of the few states that will not only issue to a non-resident (so long as you attend instruction in-state) but may also issue to a non-citizen.

I know some folk believe it's unnecessary for a non-citizen to have a carry permit, but hear me out. I'm a Canadian, married to an American. I love my country but I am quite fond of this one as well and will be applying for citizenship here the moment I am able to; I already pay taxes, but I'm more than eager to accept the other responsibilities of citizenship given that we will most likely be living here for the foreseeable future. My only constraint in getting the process moving is the time that you have to hold your permanent resident card.

That's two years away. Both my wife and I would like to have permits so we don't have to disarm as we go about our regular business here in New Mexico. If I can confirm that Texas will issue to both of us (I know they'll issue to her being a citizen, and she could simply get hers here, but it'd be nice to go through the courses together) then we are all for making it part of our trip.

Welcome!

Actually, I believe Texas is in the majority. Kentucky had their citizenship requirement for a carry license struck down in federal court. New Mexico just hasn't had their turn to lose, yet.

KBCraig said:

Welcome!

Actually, I believe Texas is in the majority. Kentucky had their citizenship requirement for a carry license struck down in federal court. New Mexico just hasn't had their turn to lose, yet.

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It's being fought at the moment, but it could be 2 years before it even approaches a light at the end of the tunnel.

If Texas will issue, I guess my next question would be for recommended instructors/classes? Location isn't much of a problem as we'll be on a road trip to begin with, though I suppose if we could stay within the area enclosed by Amarillo, Odessa and Dallas that would be great.

Grand Prairie may be at the end of your range - but The Academy for Firearms Training located there is an excellent full-service CHL training operation. They have a web site .

Since you are studying Texas law - you are no doubt already aware that handgun carry( so long as it is not in plain view) inside your vehicle is perfecty legal without a license/permit.

You also have the 46.15 "traveling" exception to 46.02. Some of us travelers have some narrow experience OC'ing while traveling in Texas - but the traveling exception applies regardless of OC/CC - so concealment is probably the better travel option if your primary concern is exercising your right to carry - without running the risk attracting attention. Texas case law makes a huge disinction between actual "traveling" ( say a journey from New Mexico to a destination in Texas), and habitual, everyday handgun carry which requires a CHL/permit.

Once you suspend your travel- say a stay over in San Antonio, or wherever - you revert to the between your vehicle/temporary quarters (motel, etc) legal carry option. "Officer Safety" concerns were the primary driver for the advent of "enhanced enforcement options" of applying 46.02a against noncriminals. If a traveler avoids trouble while in Texas - I don't see why the the definition of a TEMPORARY SUSPENSION OF TRAVEL would not extend to procurring meals (Luby's Cafeteria- for sure !), and over-the-road provisions (Walmart- a high-risk crime location) incidental to the journey - while still "enroute" of course.(Moosani v Texas)

I resided in Texas as a civilian from 1969 -1995 before the CHL law was enacted. Over that period of time "intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly" carrying of a handgun under 46.02a gradually evolved from being generally understood by law enforcement to apply only to criminals into also being applied to law-abiding folks in Texas. Thanks to John Hinkley who shot Reagan, Jim Brady, and others, and the guy who shot John Lennon, as well as other miscreants during the '80's law enforcement, and prosecutors began applying 46.02a to anyone carrying a handgun in Texas - predominantly during traffic stops- and mainly in the Houston area.

Things are better now in Texas. My point is this - exercise care, behave yourself - but above all else - stay safe, and protect your wife and yourself while in Texas. Have a good trip.

mwaterous said:

If Texas will issue, I guess my next question would be for recommended instructors/classes? Location isn't much of a problem as we'll be on a road trip to begin with, though I suppose if we could stay within the area enclosed by Amarillo, Odessa and Dallas that would be great.

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The Bullet Trap in Plano is an excellent place. Call ahead to confirm class availability and find out whether they'll be doing range qualification on the same day as the class, as that varies. Also, be aware that the state of Texas has granted an enforced monopoly on state-accepted fingerprinting to a company called L-1, so you won't be able to have your fingerprints taken at the class, no matter where you go for instruction. Schedule the fingerprinting in advance.

Thank you both for the information! We'll definitely be scheduling everything in advance, by a few months, so with any luck we'll have enough wiggle room to line it all up in the same week.

I appreciate the background on the laws, and I'd like to familiarize myself directly with the statutes themselves but I have to admit... I must be stupid. I checked all the usual suspect categories and couldn't find the statutes on firearms. I'm looking on http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/

Edit: Nevermind, I found it, Title 10 Chapter 46... That collapsible menu on their site is ridiculously painful to use.

Laws generally apply to people IN the state, not people from the state. Like people visiting the US from overseas, they have the same right to remain silent etc. as we do.

davidmcbeth said:

Laws generally apply to people IN the state, not people from the state. Like people visiting the US from overseas, they have the same right to remain silent etc. as we do.

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Not following you... isn't the first statement common sense? That's why I'm curious about the laws of Texas -- we'll be heading there in January for a week or so.

mwaterous said:

Edit: Nevermind, I found it, Title 10 Chapter 46... That collapsible menu on their site is ridiculously painful to use.

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I'm glad you found it. Come on Texas, 30 separate codes, not globally searchable, that could all contain laws pertaining to firearms!?!? The more I (try to) study Texas law, the more I'm glad I don't live there. I have never seen a more convoluted, overbearing collection of laws in my life.

Prior to my daughter and her family moving to Houston, I only had one occasion to travel there. One thing for sure, I will keep my visits to Texas to the absolute minimum possible.

mwaterous said:

I know some folk believe it's unnecessary for a non-citizen to have a carry permit, but hear me out.

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I'm fairly certain that most of us here in the Texas sub are pretty libertarian with atleast gun issues. Meaning that we believe that all free persons have a right to keep and bear arms. Not just the chosen few.

Could be wrong though~

Texas is still on a journey of identity discovery that began back in 1836.

Strangely, with one hand Texas appears to be setting a course for a Kalifornia style "utopia", while simultaneously moving towards seccession with the other.

There have sadly been a few " bumps in the road" along Texas' journey.

Mexico still hasn't yet fully metabolized the "transfer" of their Estado de Tejas to the Texians, or the United States. This is IMO the sole reason for Texas' status as one of the several United States, given that many Texans maintain that the Republic of Texas actually remains a captive nation of war under residual "Reconstruction" as punishment for its alliance with the Confederate States of America during the 1861-65 rebellion.

Combine this peculiar historical context with a frontier-minded distaste for government in general - and you have the second most populous "State" barely tolerating a legislative session every other year in which little is accomplished beyond arriving at a budget.......which always pops up as the first , as well as last order of business at the next legislative session while leaving precious little other important legislative matters to be addressed.

The net result is that Texas handgun law often appears convoluted, contradictory, consistent with neither the Texas Constitution, or the cultural attitudes of the majority of the people of Texas, and in dire need of legislative housekeeping .

Jack House said:

I'm fairly certain that most of us here in the Texas sub are pretty libertarian with atleast gun issues. Meaning that we believe that all free persons have a right to keep and bear arms. Not just the chosen few.

Could be wrong though~

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I spend a lot of time in Texas back and forth from New York throughout the year. Can I be granted a CHL in Texas although I reside in another state?

gelodagr8won said:

I spend a lot of time in Texas back and forth from New York throughout the year. Can I be granted a CHL in Texas although I reside in another state?

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Yes

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/texas.pdf

But you may find it easier or cheaper to get a permit from UT or FL, and it will be recognized in TX.

Please put New York in your profile, it will be helpful in nearly every post you make.

Welcome!

MAC702 said:

But you may find it easier or cheaper to get a permit from UT or FL, and it will be recognized in TX.

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If you shop for super saver fares, you can probably fly to Utah, take the required class, pay for your permit, and fly home for less than it will cost you to get the Texas permit.

Since Utah does not require the class be taken in Utah, there are instructors that offer the Utah class almost anywhere in the U.S. A quick google search turned up three instructors in New York that charge under $100 for the class.