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Open Carry odyssey From Texas to Va

Freeflight

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
306
Location
Yorktown VA, ,
Following is my Open Carry Odyssey from Del Rio Texas to Newport News Va. I carried my big XDM 45

TEXAS
It’s very interesting Open Carrying in Texas. Makes the pulse quicken! But I was TRAVELING so I open Carried with impunity at these locations within Texas:
Del Rio- Manuel’s Steakhouse (Excellent Quail!), Lowes, EAB (Immigration checkpoint Didn’t get out of the Truck so I guess it doesn’t count, They took the puppy a lap around the truck, they didn’t infringe on our rights any more by asking questions)

Rock Springs, The bank downtown, The Grocer (I can’t remember the name of the store).

Jonah, KFC, Gas Station

I actually saw several (two) other open carriers around rock-springs. It seems that open carry is expected and practiced here because of the sparseness of the area. There is no 911 to call. I talked with them at length, they always open carry and didn’t know it carrying a weapon was limited in any way in Texas!

Louisiana
Craw Daddy’s, El Dorado resort, Wal Mart, Ranchland Westerwear, Murphy USA Gas Station on Mansfield road,
Bossier City, Tubbs Hardware on Benton Road, Pancho’s,

Notes about El Dorado resort: The guards are not armed..and are very pitiful old fat people I was seen by them and lots of other employees and guests, no issues whatsoever. We Stayed 2 nights there.

Arkansas
One rest area. Gas Station In Little rock

Missouri
Des Arc, Poplar Bluff Wal-mart, Gas Station

Tennessee
Shoney’s in Memphis, Pilot in Stanton , Cracker Barrel in Harriman, La Quinta in Bristol

Virginia
Rest-stops, Top of Afton Mountain, Wood fired buffet in Charlottesville
 

Walt_Kowalski

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
354
Location
Ashburn, Virginia, USA
Interesting, so there is a provision in TX law that states if you are traveling you may OC? I thought that TX had only CC? I will be traveling there for the month of December, and even though I have my VA and Utah CHPs, would not mind OCing in the great state of TX :)
 

45acpForMe

Newbie
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
Yorktown, Virginia, USA
Looking at this map http://www.opencarry.org/travel.html you were misbehaving in TX, TN.

Be careful and maybe delete those sites from your post.

And looking at this map http://www.opencarry.org/restaurant.html you shouldn't carry in a LA restaurant that serves alcohol.

Of course the maps could be outdated but just going by them you could have run into trouble, a long way from home.

BTW: How do you like your XDM45? I have toyed with the idea of getting one but was disappointed it was only 13+1 like the XD.
 
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Freeflight

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
306
Location
Yorktown VA, ,
WHo me Misbehave?!! naw.

Looking at this map http://www.opencarry.org/travel.html you were misbehaving in TX, TN.

Be careful and maybe delete those sites from your post.

And looking at this map http://www.opencarry.org/restaurant.html you shouldn't carry in a LA restaurant that serves alcohol.

Of course the maps could be outdated but just going by them you could have run into trouble, a long way from home.

BTW: How do you like your XDM45? I have toyed with the idea of getting one but was disappointed it was only 13+1 like the XD.

See texas code 46.15 Nonaplicability theres a section for Travel see below, I posted my Cite...

in TN There's licensed Open carry my CHP serves as a license I failed to say I had my Virginia CHP with me just in case. I will dig up a cite when I get a chance.

I really like my XDM I like having 13+1 of +p with me.

§ 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03
do not apply to:
(1) peace officers or special investigators under
Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, and neither section
prohibits a peace officer or special investigator from carrying a
weapon in this state, including in an establishment in this state
serving the public, regardless of whether the peace officer or
special investigator is engaged in the actual discharge of the
officer's or investigator's duties while carrying the weapon;
(2) parole officers and neither section prohibits an
officer from carrying a weapon in this state if the officer is:
(A) engaged in the actual discharge of the
officer's duties while carrying the weapon; and
(B) in compliance with policies and procedures
adopted by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice regarding the
possession of a weapon by an officer while on duty;
(3) community supervision and corrections department
officers appointed or employed under Section 76.004, Government
Code, and neither section prohibits an officer from carrying a
weapon in this state if the officer is:
(A) engaged in the actual discharge of the
officer's duties while carrying the weapon; and
(B) authorized to carry a weapon under Section
76.0051, Government Code;
(4) a judge or justice of a federal court, the supreme
court, the court of criminal appeals, a court of appeals, a district
court, a criminal district court, a constitutional county court, a
statutory county court, a justice court, or a municipal court who is
licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter
411, Government Code;
(5) an honorably retired peace officer or federal
criminal investigator who holds a certificate of proficiency issued
under Section 1701.357, Occupations Code, and is carrying a photo
identification that:
(A) verifies that the officer honorably retired
after not less than 15 years of service as a commissioned officer;
and
(B) is issued by a state or local law enforcement
agency; or
(6) a district attorney, criminal district attorney,
or county attorney who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun
under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

Text of subd. (b)(1) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1221,
§ 4
(1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a
member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by
Section 431.001, Government Code, or as an employee of a penal
institution who is performing a security function;

Text of subd. (b)(1) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261,
§ 28
(1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a
member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by
Section 431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal
institution;
(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under
the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of
the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility
is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or
property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision
(5);
(3) is traveling;

Text of subd. (b)(4) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1221,
§ 4
(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other
sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is
conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's
residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

Text of subd. (b)(4) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261,
§ 28
(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other
sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is
conducted, or is directly en route between the premises and the
actor's residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the
activity;
(5) holds a security officer commission issued by the
Texas Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies,
if:
(A) the person is engaged in the performance of
the person's duties as a security officer or traveling to and from
the person's place of assignment;
(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform;
and
(C) the weapon is in plain view;
(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid
license issued under Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, to carry
a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person
is carrying;
(7) holds a security officer commission and a personal
protection authorization issued by the Texas Board of Private
Investigators and Private Security Agencies and who is providing
personal protection under the Private Investigators and Private
Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Vernon's Texas Civil
Statutes); or
(8) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or
is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or
license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted
or licensed premises.
(c) The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying
of a club does not apply to a noncommissioned security guard at an
institution of higher education who carries a nightstick or similar
club, and who has undergone 15 hours of training in the proper use
of the club, including at least seven hours of training in the use
of the club for nonviolent restraint. For the purposes of this
subsection, "nonviolent restraint" means the use of reasonable
force, not intended and not likely to inflict bodily injury.
(d) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the
carrying of a firearm or carrying of a club do not apply to a public
security officer employed by the adjutant general under Section
431.029, Government Code, in performance of official duties or
while traveling to or from a place of duty.
(e) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the
carrying of an illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying
a bowie knife or a sword used in a historical demonstration or in a
ceremony in which the knife or sword is significant to the
performance of the ceremony.
(f) Section 46.03(a)(6) does not apply to a person who
possesses a firearm or club while in the actual discharge of
official duties as:
(1) a member of the armed forces or state military
forces, as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code; or
(2) an employee of a penal institution.
(g) Repealed by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 1093, § 4; Acts
2005, 79th Leg., ch. 1179, § 3.
(h) For the purpose of Subsection (b)(2), "premises"
includes a recreational vehicle that is being used by the person
carrying the handgun, illegal knife, or club as living quarters,
regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this
subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily
designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains
temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor
vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer,
truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.

Text of subsec. (i) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 288, § 1
(i) For purposes of Subsection (b)(3), a person is presumed
to be traveling if the person is:
(1) in a private motor vehicle;
(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other
than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance
regulating traffic;
(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a
firearm;
(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined
by Section 71.01; and
(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.

Text of subsec. (i) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 976, § 4
(i) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the
carrying of a handgun do not apply to an individual who carries a
handgun as a participant in a historical reenactment performed in
accordance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage
Commission.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 318, § 18, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1221, § 4, eff. June 20,
1997; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261, § 28, eff. Sept. 1, 1997;
Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, § 9.25, eff. Sept. 1, 1999; Acts
1999, 76th Leg., ch. 1445, § 2, eff. Sept. 1, 1999; Acts 2001,
77th Leg., ch. 1060, § 3, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2003, 78th
Leg., ch. 325, § 2, eff. Sept. 1, 2003; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch.
421, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 795, §
1, eff. June 20, 2003; Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 288, § 1, eff.
Sept. 1, 2005; Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 728, § 23.001(78), eff.
Sept. 1, 2005; Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 976, § 4, eff. Sept. 1,
2005; Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 1093, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2005;
Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 1179, § 2, 3, eff. Sept. 1, 2005.
 

45acpForMe

Newbie
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
Yorktown, Virginia, USA
See texas code 46.15 Nonaplicability theres a section for Travel see below, I posted my Cite...

(3) is traveling;

Text of subsec. (i) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 288, § 1
(i) For purposes of Subsection (b)(3), a person is presumed to be traveling if the person is:
(1) in a private motor vehicle;
(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01; and
(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.

So in TX were you in a drive-in at Del Rio- Manuel’s Steakhouse? Because the way I read it was that you could only OC in your car. Or do some of the other exemptions like retired LEO apply?

And in Louisiana was Craw Daddy’s a dry restaurant?

I am not trying to be a hard-a55 just want people to make sure they aren't putting themselves at risk with the law. It would be nice if we got Constitutional carry everywhere and could do away with maps and cites.
 
Last edited:

fully_armed_biker

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
463
Location
Portsmouth, Virginia, USA
So in TX were you in a drive-in at Del Rio- Manuel’s Steakhouse? Because the way I read it was that you could only OC in your car. Or do some of the other exemptions like retired LEO apply?

And in Louisiana was Craw Daddy’s a dry restaurant?

I am not trying to be a hard-a55 just want people to make sure they aren't putting themselves at risk with the law. It would be nice if we got Constitutional carry everywhere and could do away with maps and cites.

45acpForMe...I got the same thing out of it you did...except:

Text of subsec. (i) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 288, § 1
(i) For purposes of Subsection (b)(3), a person is presumed
to be traveling if the person is:
(1) in a private motor vehicle;
(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other
than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance
regulating traffic;
(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a
firearm;
(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined
by Section 71.01; and
(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.

There are a few exemptions...LEO, Penal Guard, Military...however, only when discharging official duties.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
Location
Granite State of Mind
Explaining the Texas law requires a little history lesson.

First, Texas bans having a handgun on or about your person. Period. That's the basic premise of PC 46.02: a ban on handguns. Section 46.02 makes an exception for being on property you own or control, or being in or directly en route to a vehicle you own or control (but only if the handgun is concealed).

Then, way down in PC 46.15 ("NONAPPLICABILITY"), we see that 46.02 does not apply in certain cases. One of those is being a LEO, another is having a CHL and a concealed handgun. And 46.15(b)(2) says 46.02 does not apply to a person who is traveling.

For decades, that generally meant you could carry a handgun so long as you weren't up to no good (and being a minority counted as "up to no good" in most of the state). There was no statutory definition of traveling, and no statewide case law, just a patchwork of lower court decisions. "Traveling" in one part of the state might mean any time you're away from your home, while in another part it might require crossing three county lines and an overnight stay.

When the white middle class became afraid to carry lest they get in trouble with the law, the impetus behind the CHL law was born.

After a few years of CHL and legal concealed carry, we heard from a lot of people who didn't want to take the class and pay for the license, they just wanted to be able to carry in their car without worrying about getting busted.

To this end, in 2007 the legislature added the language seen above, where a person was presumed to be traveling if they were in a car they own or control, weren't a gang member, and weren't breaking any laws other than Class C traffic violations. But, that was only a presumption, which could be rebutted in court. Some DAs vowed to continue prosecuting anyone with a handgun in their car.

So in 2009 they tried again. They repealed the "presumed to be traveling" paragraph, and moved the same language to PC 46.02(a-1). That puts your car on the same status as property you own or control.

Yes, 46.02(a-1)(1) makes it an offense if the handgun is in plain view. But, remember: 46.02, including subsections, does not apply to someone who is traveling, per 46.15(b)(2).

The only time you are required to carry concealed in Texas is if you're in your car but not traveling, or if you are carrying under authority of a CHL. If you're traveling, on your own property, or engaged in sporting activity involving a handgun, you can OC.

Clear as mud?
 

45acpForMe

Newbie
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
Yorktown, Virginia, USA
Explaining the Texas law requires a little history lesson.
<snip>
Clear as mud?

Yes about that clear. I hate that lawyers can make a simple problem into something you need a law degree in order to understand.

Now the OP was talking about OC-ing, not on his property, in the car as well as out and about. It was the out and about part that threw red flags since Texas doesn't allow OC (much). I'm glad nothing bad happened but would hate to see someone get pinched for ignorance of the law.

It seems that the Texans have tried to untangle their laws a bit but they have a ways to go in my opinion. :)
 

Freeflight

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
306
Location
Yorktown VA, ,
Yes about that clear. I hate that lawyers can make a simple problem into something you need a law degree in order to understand.

Now the OP was talking about OC-ing, not on his property, in the car as well as out and about. It was the out and about part that threw red flags since Texas doesn't allow OC (much). I'm glad nothing bad happened but would hate to see someone get pinched for ignorance of the law.

It seems that the Texans have tried to untangle their laws a bit but they have a ways to go in my opinion. :)

See the thread in the TEXAS Forum, Open carry while Traveling is Completely Legal!
Had I got Pinched... I would have pinched back hard.

Ignorance, not so much... I researched and planned before pulling this stunt..
 

DKSuddeth

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
833
Location
Bedford, Texas, USA
Where did you guys get your copy of Texas Penal Code Section 46.15? 46.15(i) was repealed, effective September 1, 2007. 46.15(b)(2) is no longer defined by 46.15(i).

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.15
<snip>
(i) Repealed by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 693, Sec. 3(2), eff. September 1, 2007.
</snip>

not sure what (i) is supposed to be that was repealed, but here is the appropriate exception for carrying openly.

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(2) is traveling;

(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;
 

Freeflight

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
306
Location
Yorktown VA, ,
not sure what (i) is supposed to be that was repealed, but here is the appropriate exception for carrying openly.

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(2) is traveling;

(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

Thanks DKSuddeth, Spoken better than I.
 
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