Man aged 107 killed * *** by police in his bedroom

77zach · Sep 8, 2013

http://www.thv11.com/news/article/278849/2/107-year-old-Arkansas-man-dies-in-shootout-with-SWAT

Lord knows you can't outwait those 107 year olds, they never ever sleep.

Grapeshot · Sep 8, 2013

[h=2]Moderator Comment[/h]

In light of several of our rules (LEO bashing, personal attacks, etc.) please refrain from including descriptors for affect in your threads/posts/replies - an indication of your personal negative bias, but IMO not in keeping with OCDO standards.

We deal in facts. The presentation of overtly negative verbiage, particularly before the facts are fully known, represents a premature conclusion which at best is yellow journalism.

In general, I have observed a decided tendency to seek out and report LEO transgressions, particularly by a few certain users. While such reports are certainly of interest to many here, the preponderance of them seen recently is beyond the intended scope of OCDO.

marshaul · Sep 8, 2013

Of course, he was shooting at them, so it's "justified".

On the other hand, it would take one hell of a "disturbance" to convince me that police actually needed to get the upper hand on this centenarian in the first place. What was the compelling interest preventing them from simply leaving him alone, other than their own egos?

I know that if I were checking out a "disturbance" in my neighborhood, and a 107-year-old neighbor shot through his door at me, I'd consider that an invitation to wrap up my investigation and go home, not a challenge to my masculinity. There's very likely no crime a 107-year-old is going to commit that merits my – or anybody else's – concern.

Citizen · Sep 8, 2013

I can't help but wonder if Agent107 wanted to end it all. Or, was very willing to risk that in order to repel boarders/asssert his right to be left alone.

Separately: a 107-year old operating a handgun. That's one amazing guy. Racking the slide on a semi-auto, or pulling the trigger on a double-action revolver just cannot be easy at that age.

Too bad they had to kill the old guy. But, I can't help wondering if he didn't go with some personal satisfaction from resisting.

If he was resisting because he was tired of government, those dumb cops just played right into his hands.

77zach · Sep 8, 2013

Never call the police. They're worthless at best, murderous at worst. What functioning adult couldn't diffuse the situation peacefully with a 107 year old man? No, the old man had to be punished. Disgusting.

Rusty Young Man · Sep 8, 2013

Citizen said:
SNIP...Too bad they had to kill the old guy. But, I can't help wondering if he didn't go with some personal satisfaction from resisting.

If he was resisting because he was tired of government, those dumb cops just played right into his hands.

Fight til the end? Compared to the possibility of dying alone in a cold hospital room, riddled with tubes and hooked up to a respirator, having been stripped of dignity, I guess being swarmed by SWAT isn't the worst way to go.

PALO · Sep 8, 2013

77zach said:
Never call the police. They're worthless at best, murderous at worst. What functioning adult couldn't diffuse the situation peacefully with a 107 year old man? No, the old man had to be punished. Disgusting.

fortunately, the general public strongly disagrees. Polling data show they overwhelmingly consider the police honest and professional and my Agency routinely handed out anonymous "customer comment cards" to people at calls we responded to. The returned comments showed overwhelmingly positive responses. You can continue in your factfree aversion to the cops, but thankfully most of the public knows it's rubbish and they do dial 911 when they need help.

There's nothing magical about being 107 that renders one a 'non-threat' if one is actiing assaultively with a firearm. One of the strongest reasons I am pro RKBA is that firearms ARE the great equalizer. They offer the physically weak(er) a method of protection - women, the elderly and the infirm. This is not to say all women are weaker than all men, of course. I train on a weightlifting team with some of the strongest women in the country (google Melanie Roach, former Olympian Weightlifter), but on average they are weaker than their attacker. Ditto the elderly and of course the infirm.

77zach · Sep 8, 2013

Grapeshot said:
[h=2]Moderator Comment[/h]
In light of several of our rules (LEO bashing, personal attacks, etc.) please refrain from including descriptors for affect in your threads/posts/replies - an indication of your personal negative bias, but IMO not in keeping with OCDO standards.

We deal in facts. The presentation of overtly negative verbiage, particularly before the facts are fully known, represents a premature conclusion which at best is yellow journalism.

In general, I have observed a decided tendency to seek out and report LEO transgressions, particularly by a few certain users. While such reports are certainly of interest to many here, the preponderance of them seen recently is beyond the intended scope of OCDO.

Shocking sentiment, grape. We're a couple of Sandy Houcks away from private gun ownership being outlawed, not to mention open carry. Nearly half the country believes only those wearing state issued costumes should be armed. Almost the entire country would say police have the right to machine guns, grenades, tanks, etc, while our possession of the same should send us to jail for years.

The police state is here and out of control by any metric, by anyone paying attention.

PALO · Sep 8, 2013

77zach said:
Shocking sentiment, grape. We're a couple of Sandy Houcks away from private gun ownership being outlawed, not to mention open carry. Nearly half the country believes only those wearing state issued costumes should be armed. Almost the entire country would say police have the right to machine guns, grenades, tanks, etc, while our possession of the same should send us to jail for years.

The police state is here and out of control by any metric, by anyone paying attention.

Utter rubbish. There are few areas of constitutional law that are proceeding in a more positive fashion than the RKBA. Over the last few decades we have seen a massive expansion in the existence of shall-issue and constitutional carry jurisdictions, as well as reciprocity laws. That's not opinion, that's fact. RKBA is recognized in far more states NOW than 10, 20, or 30 yrs ago. I don't know what fantasy world you are living in, but here in the reality based community, there are few more positive narratives than the story of how courts, and state legislatures are expanding both the constitutional viewpoints on the 2nd amendment (McDonald, Heller, etc.) , as well as the statutory requirements to RKBA (many states moved from may issue to shall issue).

There is no "police state" in the US, which is especially obvious if you've ever visited an actual police state (I have), you will kiss the ground of the US upon return

davidmcbeth · Sep 8, 2013

What was the 107 YO's demand? Some Matlock episodes?

The SWAT team was in no real danger .. they have ballistic shields don't they? Well...they work, don't they?

Could have waited 1/2 hr for the guy's nap time.

Good patience for their gestapo agents .. they must have been in a hurry to bust into another house suspected of having a seed of weed germinating.

77zach · Sep 8, 2013

PALO said:
fortunately, the general public strongly disagrees. Polling data show they overwhelmingly consider the police honest and professional and my Agency routinely handed out anonymous "customer comment cards" to people at calls we responded to. The returned comments showed overwhelmingly positive responses. You can continue in your factfree aversion to the cops, but thankfully most of the public knows it's rubbish and they do dial 911 when they need help.

There's nothing magical about being 107 that renders one a 'non-threat' if one is actiing assaultively with a firearm. One of the strongest reasons I am pro RKBA is that firearms ARE the great equalizer. They offer the physically weak(er) a method of protection - women, the elderly and the infirm. This is not to say all women are weaker than all men, of course. I train on a weightlifting team with some of the strongest women in the country (google Melanie Roach, former Olympian Weightlifter), but on average they are weaker than their attacker. Ditto the elderly and of course the infirm.

That's sweet about the comment cards, I almost shed a tear. As if your "services" were a product of the market, lol.

Did you read the story? A 107 man was barricaded in his room with no hostages and the police were completely safe. They sent a mad dog killer in to finish the guy off. I'd charge the killer cop with 2nd degree murder.

PALO · Sep 8, 2013

77zach said:
That's sweet about the comment cards, I almost shed a tear. As if your "services" were a product of the market, lol.

Did you read the story? A 107 man was barricaded in his room with no hostages and the police were completely safe. They sent a mad dog killer in to finish the guy off. I'd charge the killer cop with 2nd degree murder.

My service is respected by the community, if the comment cards are to be believed. Since they are anonymous, people are free to speak their mind, and the minds spoken are overwhelmingly positive towards our agency. And nationwide, according to polling data, the same is true.

I bring this up to reconfirm, for those interested in facts, that your attitude and beliefs about cops is a tiny niche minority attitude/belief set. It will remain so, because the general public will base their beliefs upon their experiences with the cops, despite what the anti-cop bigots want them to believe

I read the story. I know from experience in details *I* have been involved in, that relying on the lay media for accurate details on incidents like this (and it's always about the details ) is problematic at best. There simply is no way to know at this point if it is murder, andor if it's a justifiable shoot even

Your commetns about a "mad dog" killer are amusing, but not relevant to the case at hand. I see nothing in the article even assuming it's accurate on the details that support a charge of "murder". that is simply absurd

77zach · Sep 8, 2013

PALO said:
Utter rubbish. There are few areas of constitutional law that are proceeding in a more positive fashion than the RKBA. Over the last few decades we have seen a massive expansion in the existence of shall-issue and constitutional carry jurisdictions, as well as reciprocity laws. That's not opinion, that's fact. RKBA is recognized in far more states NOW than 10, 20, or 30 yrs ago. I don't know what fantasy world you are living in, but here in the reality based community, there are few more positive narratives than the story of how courts, and state legislatures are expanding both the constitutional viewpoints on the 2nd amendment (McDonald, Heller, etc.) , as well as the statutory requirements to RKBA (many states moved from may issue to shall issue).

There is no "police state" in the US, which is especially obvious if you've ever visited an actual police state (I have), you will kiss the ground of the US upon return

You must be living in an alternate universe. 40 years ago, OC was the law of the nearly everywhere and New Jersey and California had constitutional carry. This year we saw the banning of military pattern firearms in Maryland, New York, Connecticut, and soon the retroactive ban of registered military pattern weapons in California.

Heller and McDonald have done nothing. It is still nearly impossible to REGISTER a revolver in DC (most semiauto's still banned). If I were travel to your state with a machine gun, where they are illegal, regardless of federal law, you would gladly kidnap me on behalf of your masters, ruining my life, and there would be no one to rescue me or even feel bad. If I refused to pay your salary, you would kill me, if I persisted in not paying you.

marshaul · Sep 8, 2013

PALO said:
fortunately, the general public strongly disagrees. Polling data show they overwhelmingly consider the police honest and professional and my Agency routinely handed out anonymous "customer comment cards" to people at calls we responded to. The returned comments showed overwhelmingly positive responses. You can continue in your factfree aversion to the cops, but thankfully most of the public knows it's rubbish and they do dial 911 when they need help.

You should try polling outside your circle of family and friends.

There's nothing magical about being 107 that renders one a 'non-threat' if one is actiing assaultively with a firearm. One of the strongest reasons I am pro RKBA is that firearms ARE the great equalizer. They offer the physically weak(er) a method of protection - women, the elderly and the infirm. This is not to say all women are weaker than all men, of course. I train on a weightlifting team with some of the strongest women in the country (google Melanie Roach, former Olympian Weightlifter), but on average they are weaker than their attacker. Ditto the elderly and of course the infirm.

No, but, as I said, there is something about being 107 which makes it incredibly unlikely that the cops had any real compelling reason to get the upper hand on this guy, other than "never let anything go", standard police practice.

"Who gives a **** about preserving the peace? That guy gave us an excuse!"

PALO · Sep 8, 2013

marshaul said:
You should try polling outside your circle of family and friends.

No, but, as I said, there is something about being 107 which makes it incredibly unlikely that the cops had any real compelling reason to get the upper hand on this guy, other than "never let anything go", standard police practice.

"Who gives a **** about preserving the peace? That guy gave us an excuse!"

I've already cited the poll. It was by gallup and nationwide. and it's been year after year. Consistently, cops rate very high in the %age of people who consider us honest and professional. That's not opinion. That's fact. Your viewpoint is the niche minority. 3% rate us very poor in honesty and professionalism and 7% rate us poor. I can live with that. we rank WAY above lawyers, journalists, etc. etc. We, and military officers are the only govt. employees that rank high in the list iirc. teachers and nurses also rank higher than us. I can live with that, too.

Just recognize that your viewpoint is NOT the viewpoint of the 'average' american when it comes to cops. It's part of what makes this job so rewarding, is the public support I get in my community. We work closely with them, through neighborhood watches, citizen academies, etc.

His age is entirely irrelevant to the question you think you have answered.

marshaul · Sep 8, 2013

PALO said:
His age is entirely irrelevant to the question you think you have answered.

And what question is that?

Incidentally, Gallup returning such a facially ridiculous result only further undermines their credibility, already reduced to basically nothing in the last couple years. And even if that weren't true, I'd reject their methodology as statistically (and sociologically) invalid.

77zach · Sep 8, 2013

PALO said:
His age is entirely irrelevant to the question you think you have answered.

Only a cop could say such a thing. I had to do a portion of residency in a nursing home/assisted living, it is true that not all 90 year olds are equal. 95, wow, usually not a lot of difference, but still sometimes you get one that can do everything themselves. Over 100? Forget about it. I actually was on the floor when a 97 year old man pulled a gun on a nurse because they wouldn't let him leave (he was very confused and a danger to himself), the situation was diffused and the police were never even called.

davidmcbeth · Sep 8, 2013

I'm only surprised that the cops did not burn the guy's house down and lock the neighborhood down and search every house....then send in the drones and bombed his house for good measure.

A 107 year old guy is not much of any threat, with a handgun or not. Why even storm the house?

PALO is telling us that cops deemed the activities as being acceptable. Good to know.

HandyHamlet · Sep 9, 2013

PALO said:
There is no "police state" in the US, which is especially obvious if you've ever visited an actual police state (I have), you will kiss the ground of the US upon return

:banghead:

nsa spying
https://www.google.com/search?q=nsa...spying&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=nws

Updated story now claims the 107 yr old was blind and deaf.

MKEgal · Sep 9, 2013

Unfortunately, he's reported as pointing the gun at 2 people, then shooting at police at least 3 different times.
With a gun, even a 5yo is a threat.

And have you considered that maybe this extremely elderly man was not in his right mind, so was not thinking clearly or responding 'normally', so was more of a threat?

It's sad this happened, and I think there could have been a better way out, other than killing him, but from what is presented (yes, I know all about how the media mess things up) it sounds like he was actually a threat.

As for Gallup polls about police, all it takes is a Google...
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1654/honesty-ethics-professions.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1597/confidence-institutions.aspx

Man aged 107 killed *** ***** by police in his bedroom

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Man aged 107 killed * *** by police in his bedroom