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Hopitals and malls.

KIX

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a) Why? Worst case, the ordinance makes you open carry. I don't think anyone has been cited for a violation of this ordinance, so it is pretty useless.

b) Bringing further attention to this ordinance may result in the opposite of what we want occurring. What if they just modify the ordinance to say "No carrying of firearms" which is likely what they meant from the start?

Don't think anyone has been cited..... one reason, most think there is no ordinance and conceal carry in New Britain, as I'm finding out more and more the past few weeks. Goes to what we said about when concealed, there is usually no incident. However, in this case, that is indeed breaking the law.

Argument B, really doesn't have merit IMHO.

That is the EXACT same thing as open carry in general in the state. Your case, Hoffmans case, bringing more attention to it can only cause legislation to end open carry in the state, right?

Just playing the devils advocate here, but the same can be said whether you open carry in NB or the state.

Jonathan
 

Rich B

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Don't think anyone has been cited..... one reason, most think there is no ordinance and conceal carry in New Britain, as I'm finding out more and more the past few weeks. Goes to what we said about when concealed, there is usually no incident. However, in this case, that is indeed breaking the law.

Argument B, really doesn't have merit IMHO.

That is the EXACT same thing as open carry in general in the state. Your case, Hoffmans case, bringing more attention to it can only cause legislation to end open carry in the state, right?

Just playing the devils advocate here, but the same can be said whether you open carry in NB or the state.

Jonathan

The problem is that New Britain's ordinance is not something that is enforceable or realistic. Even most of the police there are unaware of it. So to 'bring attention' to it is to possibly harm those in the community who are unaware of it. That would be the opposite of what I would want.

This is beside the point that in general open carry events are not very good or successful. The real battles in open carry come simply by carrying on your everyday life while open carrying.

I understand your points, but I don't think this is a place or cause anyone should be investing any time. The only way anyone will positively impact that ordinance is if someone is cited for it, they can challenge it. Anything else carries far too many risks in my opinion.
 

Tazman2

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Feb 25, 2009
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Newington, Connecticut, USA
The problem is that New Britain's ordinance is not something that is enforceable or realistic. Even most of the police there are unaware of it. So to 'bring attention' to it is to possibly harm those in the community who are unaware of it. That would be the opposite of what I would want.

Not much different from open carry being legal. Until recently none of them really knew at all all over this state so its not really that different! ;)
 

Rich B

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Not much different from open carry being legal. Until recently none of them really knew at all all over this state so its not really that different! ;)

It is different in the fact that for open carry we want to make sure everyone understands it as it exists. For the NB ordinance, we accomplish nothing by bringing it into the public light.
 

Alex.EastHartford.

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Speaking on open carry. When i go out to the stores or other places i look around to see who is o.c., but it feels like I am the only one doing so? I have not run into or seen anyone open carrying. for a state that talks about o.c. i don't see gun owners open carrying? maybe I am blind.

I know its a choice, but it would be nice to see more open carry citizens. I also visited other towns and still have not see any open carryers'. COME ON PEOPLE! CARRY ON!
 

KIX

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Rich,
I'm still having the hardest time following your logic.

Open carry is legal, so we want people to understand that it is legal, though concealed carry is an option.

Open carry is illegal in New Britain, so if we open carry (which is legal) we call their attention to...... what? That the only way to carry legal in New Britain is open carry.

We should avoid New Britain? Break the law? Shouldn't we let people know that we don't have a choice in their town?

I'm not being thick headed here, I sincerely am just trying to find the logic for your argument.

Jonathan
 

Rich B

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Open carry is illegal in New Britain, so if we open carry (which is legal) we call their attention to...... what? That the only way to carry legal in New Britain is open carry.

We should avoid New Britain? Break the law? Shouldn't we let people know that we don't have a choice in their town?

By all means, I never said to not open carry in New Britain. I just disagreed that we should launch some open carry event or campaign just to 'create public awareness'. Carry how you wish, in accordance to the law, where you wish. The open carry demonstrations do nothing to help our cause, and they might actually hurt our cause.
 

Leverdude

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May 14, 2009
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Norwalk, Connecticut, USA
By all means, I never said to not open carry in New Britain. I just disagreed that we should launch some open carry event or campaign just to 'create public awareness'. Carry how you wish, in accordance to the law, where you wish. The open carry demonstrations do nothing to help our cause, and they might actually hurt our cause.

That can happen in the state as a whole too Rich. Isn't it naive to think that enlightening everyone to the legality of OC in CT wont create incentive to require concealment?

On another note, someone mentioned not seeing many OCers in CT. The simple fact is OC in towns & such was never very common. I'v been to several traditional OC states & rarely seen anyone OCing. Just because you can doesn't mean that everyone will. Rarely see anyone OCing in town in NH, VT, PA or Arizona outside of hunting season. For many people its just not convenient.
 

Rich B

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That can happen in the state as a whole too Rich. Isn't it naive to think that enlightening everyone to the legality of OC in CT wont create incentive to require concealment?

You are comparing opposites. In one, we point out where the law is against us, but no one knows it. In the other, we point out where the law is for us, but no one knows it. Open carrying is a way to restore a right that we have lost because of complacency and laziness. Whether you agree or disagree with open carrying, the simple fact is that no one should ever have to fear arrest, detainment or harassment simply for printing. And yet it happens. That is the main reason in my mind to push back.

Being afraid to practice things that you have the right to practice is the naive way of thinking in my opinion.
 
Last edited:

gluegun

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May 13, 2009
Messages
359
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Central, Connecticut, USA
Speaking on open carry. When i go out to the stores or other places i look around to see who is o.c., but it feels like I am the only one doing so? I have not run into or seen anyone open carrying. for a state that talks about o.c. i don't see gun owners open carrying? maybe I am blind.

I know its a choice, but it would be nice to see more open carry citizens. I also visited other towns and still have not see any open carryers'. COME ON PEOPLE! CARRY ON!

In a state of 4 million there are over 150,000(rounded off for math simplification) permit holders. Assuming each person you meet throughout your day has the same chance of being a permit holder, then there is only a 3.75% chance that any person you meet throughout your day is a permit holder.

I'm pretty sure that not every permit holder carries a gun at all, let alone every single time they leave the house. Not all of those who carry know that open carry is legal. Many that do know, don't think that OC is a tactically sound decision. Others who do know and want to open carry are afraid to do so. There could be a number of other reasons why someone doesn't OC all the time, or even at any given time.

Being realistic you have to expect to be the only one openly carrying wherever you go. The number of people who actively OC all day, every day is extremely small.

Don't get discouraged though. If you care about open carry, please keep doing it! :)
 

Leverdude

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May 14, 2009
Messages
265
Location
Norwalk, Connecticut, USA
You are comparing opposites. In one, we point out where the law is against us, but no one knows it. In the other, we point out where the law is for us, but no one knows it. Open carrying is a way to restore a right that we have lost because of complacency and laziness. Whether you agree or disagree with open carrying, the simple fact is that no one should ever have to fear arrest, detainment or harassment simply for printing. And yet it happens. That is the main reason in my mind to push back.

Being afraid to practice things that you have the right to practice is the naive way of thinking in my opinion.

If it was a recognized right you would not need a permit. The way to restore the right would be thru legislative action which got rid of the need for a permit to carry openly. IMO CT does not recognize RKBA since there is no legal way to carry or even transport a handgun without a permit.
I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't OC, just that the end result could be just as bad as the end result of pushing it it NB. Its a knife edge thing here and could go either way. Every legislator I'v spoken with has said they thought it a concealed permit and that they would support legislation requireing concealment if introduced.
I think the killer for requireing concealment would be the fact that there are legitimate legal uses for a handgun that cannot be reasonably excercised with a concealed handgun.
Its a carry permit, you shouldn't need one to put an unloaded gun in your car to go hunting or shooting, you shouldn't need one to buy a gun or anything except carry it loaded on your person.
Were we in a reasonable state these things wouldn't concern me. But a state that requires a carry permit to even transport a gun is anything but reasonable.

More important, IMO, than enlightening the populace to the legality of OC is getting our laws revamped to resemble something an adult created instead of something a second grader dreamed up.
 

KIX

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I've always said the more of an issue we make of open carry (though I do support the right) will end up changing the rules to concealed carry.

The congressional critters in Hartford wouldn't have it any other way.... sad, but I think they would legislate concealment.

The biggest problem is printing and accidental flashing (like sitting down in a restaurant and such). Now, breach of peace would be soooo much easier.

Jonathan
 

Rich B

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If it was a recognized right you would not need a permit.

While I agree that permits are useless and that they should not exist, this has nothing to do with anything I said.

The way to restore the right would be thru legislative action which got rid of the need for a permit to carry openly.

I have not said anything about trying to correct the need to have a permit to carry. We have permits, we may carry openly or concealed, there is no question there.

I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't OC, just that the end result could be just as bad as the end result of pushing it it NB.

That is the case with any civil rights fight. However, comparing the two is not applicable as I have mentioned previously.

Every legislator I'v spoken with has said they thought it a concealed permit and that they would support legislation requireing concealment if introduced.

Cite your sources please.

More important, IMO, than enlightening the populace to the legality of OC is getting our laws revamped to resemble something an adult created instead of something a second grader dreamed up.

I am sure you will be volunteering to lead this project for the CCDL at the next meeting, right?
 

GoldCoaster

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Jun 24, 2008
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Stratford, Connecticut, USA
I've always said the more of an issue we make of open carry (though I do support the right) will end up changing the rules to concealed carry.

The congressional critters in Hartford wouldn't have it any other way.... sad, but I think they would legislate concealment.

The biggest problem is printing and accidental flashing (like sitting down in a restaurant and such). Now, breach of peace would be soooo much easier.

Jonathan

The last time the DPS tried pushing through a mandated concealment provision it didn't get out of committee. Thanks to many dedicated gun owners sitting in the legislative hearing and calmly and clearly voicing their opposition to the proposed legislation and why.
 
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