Spokane OC'ers- Spokane Transit question...etc etc

p85-GSXwheelman · Jan 8, 2012

I've been getting conflicting answers from everyone about whether or not u can CC or OC on public transportation, such as, STA. I am a freshly licensed CC'er, as of 2 months ago, but choose to OC 24/7. The clearest answer i got was something about how the laws of the state cannot be over ruled by any lesser entity or something along those lines. Another person argued that its private property so they can make their own rules. It just seems to me that its not private property if its incorporating the name of the city in its title! haha Any input would be helpful....especially tips for approaching S.T.A. about it. Lastly (then i'll shut up), I looked at the bus window and door of the particular bus I was riding and didnt see a "no weapons" sign.....I was wearing a nice leather shoulder rig that i had just purchased and assembled (no pistol at the time tho), and the driver at first wouldnt move the bus and was sitting there staring me up and down (very uncomfortable)....then finally closed the door and took off. so you can see my confusion.... thanks a bunch! hopefully i'll see you on the 14th!

SigGuy23 · Jan 8, 2012

The RCW's state that public transportation such as buses and ferries are considered vehicles. There for as long as you have a WA CPL, You are aloud to have the gun loaded and on your person concealed or not.

acmariner99 · Jan 8, 2012

SigGuy23 said:
The RCW's state that public transportation such as buses and ferries are considered vehicles. There for as long as you have a WA CPL, You are aloud to have the gun loaded and on your person concealed or not.

That is all well and good. But one thing I still don't understand is the light rail in Seattle clearly says no weapons allowed. All other metro and sound transit services says no ILLEGAL weapons allowed.

SigGuy23 · Jan 8, 2012

I don't know then. Just stating what the RCW's say. Maybe letters should be written to the city about the postings.

hermannr · Jan 8, 2012

acmariner99 said:
That is all well and good. But one thing I still don't understand is the light rail in Seattle clearly says no weapons allowed. All other metro and sound transit services says no ILLEGAL weapons allowed.

The city, and the city's transist system cannot restrict your licensed carry on their city government owned transit system. It is just like the Seattle and Spokane parks ban,,,not a law. Not just not an enforceable law, it is litterly not a law. The state RCW overrules. Carry on.

Grayhound can restrict if they wish because they are a private transportation company.

p85-GSXwheelman · Jan 8, 2012

Thanks everyone. I just hope they dont decide to be stupid pricks about it. Im all for making ppl aware that its perfectly legal and normal, but not while detained.....especially when I gotta be somewhere! HAHA so I understand correctly.....that I SHOULD be able to carry on S.T.A.....both CC or OC? Just varifying. although, theres really no way to ensure that hands stay away from yer strong side when yer on a bus....so id prolly CC.

Thor80 · Jan 8, 2012

You can carry on public transportation, in this case STA either concealed or open. Heres a copy of an email from another thread from STA officer. Thread is located at http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?98258-North-Spokane-Best-Buy (It started out with Best Buy but we digressed to STA...) Snarly also OC's on STA without issue.

Dear Mr. Sinclair,

Thank you for your email about the signs on the buses stating that no firearms or weapons are allowed.

As I am sure you noticed, the "Rules of the Road" signs on the buses do not list all of the behaviors prohibited by the Spokane Transit Authority (STA) Rules of Conduct. Furthermore, the behaviors highlighted on this sign are in a truncated format when compared to the Rules of Conduct. It is the complete, STA Board-adopted Rules of Conduct that govern STA's reaction to fact-based situations.

I understand your concern that the signage on the bus may confuse people as to their rights under Washington State law. I can tell you that no one has expressed such confusion to me, which usually is indicative of a lack of confusion about STA's rules, policies, and procedures. But, you'll be glad to know, that I had already requested that this statement either be removed or better explained on the next edition of the "Rules of the Road" signage. You will notice a change in the signs next year.

In the meantime, Spokane Transit's operators, supervisors, and security officers are all trained on the official Rules of Conduct, thus there is no risk of confusion on their part. If a passenger questioned the summary statement on the Rules of the Road, I believe a bus operator would refer that person to the actual Rules of Conduct.

I cannot promise you (or anyone) that bringing a weapon on a bus is per se permissible in every situation. I can promise you that Spokane Transit deals with all situations within the limits of the law, including a fact specific analysis of the circumstances, manner, time, place and intent factors established in RCW 9.41.270.

Thank you again for writing. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

Susan Millbank
Community Ombudsman
Accessibility Officer
Spokane Transit

Hope this sets you at ease a bit!

-Thor

p85-GSXwheelman · Jan 8, 2012

Oh my...yeah that takes care of that! Thanks Thor. Just out of curiousity, when did that correspondance with STA take place? I only ask because I'm wondering when the "next year signage" will take place.

country.hacker · Jan 8, 2012

p85-GSXwheelman said:
Oh my...yeah that takes care of that! Thanks Thor. Just out of curiousity, when did that correspondance with STA take place? I only ask because I'm wondering when the "next year signage" will take place.

Hey p85, I sent the email to the STA rep and received that response about three weeks ago.

EDIT: 12/28 to be exact, went back into my email archive and pulled it out.

o2ryan · Jan 9, 2012

Wheelman,

With all due respect, I would look twice at a guy wearing an empty holster too. I would be thinking "Why would someone wear a holster without a gun? So where is his gun if not in the holster?" If you are going to wander around town wearing an empty shoulder holster, you should expect some funny looks.

The only place I would expect to see an empty holster on someone would be a bar, school, or other restricted building.

p85-GSXwheelman · Jan 9, 2012

Snarly, I totally understand that, and I agree. My hands were full and the shoulder rig doesnt exactly fit in a pocket. I had it on from my last stop at the store, to my house, there was no wandering. Guess it was just bad circumstances. But it made me inquire about the STA question, so its not all bad. Could it have gone in one of the bags i was carrying? sure...but then we wouldnt have as much to talk about on here, right? I just wanted to get home. Thanks for the input.

p85-GSXwheelman · Jan 9, 2012

Thor80 said:
You can carry on public transportation, in this case STA either concealed or open. Heres a copy of an email from another thread from STA officer. Thread is located at http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?98258-North-Spokane-Best-Buy (It started out with Best Buy but we digressed to STA...) Snarly also OC's on STA without issue.

Hope this sets you at ease a bit!

-Thor

I've been thinkin about this. After reading it a few times, it sure seems like this lady is saying a whole lot, without saying much. HAHA Its probably just because she has to be careful what she says in her position, idk. Either way, good to know someone else carries on STA. way to blaze the trail. Hoorah.

*whoops....thought the letter portion would show up with quoted text.

Lammo · Jan 9, 2012

acmariner99 said:
That is all well and good. But one thing I still don't understand is the light rail in Seattle clearly says no weapons allowed. All other metro and sound transit services says no ILLEGAL weapons allowed.

The fact that they are in violation of preemption hasn't stopped any of the various governmental entities that think they know better than the citizens or believe that they can be a legislature unto themselves. Seattle light rail is public transportation and their "no weapons" policy is void, period. Carry on light rail is allowed under RCW 9.91.025(1)(f), link here: http://search.leg.wa.gov/pub/textsearch/ViewRoot.asp?Action=Html&Item=1&X=109092523&p=1. If the State legislature wanted to make carry on public transportation unlawful, this was the place for them to do it. They didn't so IMHLO you are free to ignore the signs on light rail or any other public transit system.

P.S. as Dave points out below, you of course would need a CPL in order to carry loaded on Metro or STA or any other bus as these are clearly vehicles. I suppose you could argue that a ferry or a light rail car are not "vehicles" as that term is generally understood to mean things that travel on the roadways. I don't think I would want to test that one though.

acmariner99 · Jan 9, 2012

Lammo said:
The fact that they are in violation of preemption hasn't stopped any of the various governmental entities that think they know better than the citizens or believe that they can be a legislature unto themselves. Seattle light rail is public transportation and their "no weapons" policy is void, period. Carry on light rail is allowed under RCW 9.91.025(1)(f), link here: http://search.leg.wa.gov/pub/textsearch/ViewRoot.asp?Action=Html&Item=1&X=109092523&p=1. If the State legislature wanted to make carry on public transportation unlawful, this was the place for them to do it. They didn't so IMHLO you are free to ignore the signs on light rail or any other public transit system.

What I will do is contact Sound Transit and ask about the disparity in signage and the training of their security staff. Maybe they will be as informed as STA is.

dwordinger · Jan 9, 2012

From RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) SNIP

(b)SNIP

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

Isn't a bus a vehicle? How about a train or a ferry? I don't ride the bus so I haven't seen Thor, or anyone else, carrying, but how do you get away with it? Where in the RCW does it say public transportation, or any other vehicle isn't a vehicle?

I admit it, I'm confused.

o2ryan · Jan 9, 2012

dwordinger said:
From RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) SNIP

(b)SNIP

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

Isn't a bus a vehicle? How about a train or a ferry? I don't ride the bus so I haven't seen Thor, or anyone else, carrying, but how do you get away with it? Where in the RCW does it say public transportation, or any other vehicle isn't a vehicle?

I admit it, I'm confused.

Dave,

Myself, and everyone I know that has carried on the bus, possesses a valid WA CPL, so it is a non-issue.

Spokane OC'ers- Spokane Transit question...etc etc

p85-GSXwheelman

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SigGuy23

Activist Member

acmariner99

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SigGuy23

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hermannr

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p85-GSXwheelman

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Thor80

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p85-GSXwheelman

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country.hacker

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o2ryan

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p85-GSXwheelman

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p85-GSXwheelman

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Lammo

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acmariner99

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dwordinger

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o2ryan

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