RCall
Regular Member
If you haven't heard it enough, carry a recorder!!! It may save your but big time one day. You can get a nice one for around $50.00.
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oc in walmart first ever bad experience cops called
- Thread starter ohiopatriot
- Start date
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
I paid much less for mine, though it can only be replayed through a computer. It has 4G memory and can run for 70 hours.
ohiopatriot
New member
All great advice ill be sure to get a recorder soon very very soon. I just got into an argument with my cousin who is a leo now going on 21 yrs all i wanted to know about was filing a complaint against officers because the local dept refused to give me any forms.
He tried to pull the old "well if someone gets scared from seeing you open carry we can charge you with inducing a panic " and compared open carry to yelling fire in a crowded theater. i tried to inform him that he was incorrect but he didnt want to hear it and kept arguing saying " i know youre not breaking the law but if someone gets scared and runs away from me into the street and gets hurt that im liable for it"
Does anybody have any pointers on politely educating my cousin the leo. his ignorance could cost him or his dept a lawsuit.
He tried to pull the old "well if someone gets scared from seeing you open carry we can charge you with inducing a panic " and compared open carry to yelling fire in a crowded theater. i tried to inform him that he was incorrect but he didnt want to hear it and kept arguing saying " i know youre not breaking the law but if someone gets scared and runs away from me into the street and gets hurt that im liable for it"
Does anybody have any pointers on politely educating my cousin the leo. his ignorance could cost him or his dept a lawsuit.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
You can't lead a anti to water, even a LEO. The most important responsibility of a LAC is to his own actions. If he or his dept get sued that is their problem, not yours. Act like a professional while carrying, at all times. Your demeanor while carrying is the most important thing you can do for education to the public.
Maverick9
Regular Member
ohiopatriot
New member
not usually but this time it was like i wasnt even talking to my cousin it was more like talking to any ole ignorant leo
Rusty Young Man
Regular Member
Then it has already started; your cousin is on the fast track to being one of the heavy-handed (I'm trying to be really polite here) LEOs we hear about on this forum. I suggest you REALLY take the time to make a case against his erroneous views, this time backing your words up with case law in order to nip this in the bud before we hear of your cousin accosting an armed LAC (and probably costing taxpayers a lot of money in the litigation process).
Unfortunately, I'm blanking out completely right now, so you'll have to wait until I am really awake. Maybe another member is feeling more lucid than I on a Monday morning.
MSG Laigaie
Campaign Veteran
He seems to be falling back on "doctrine" because he cannot think for himself. He is what is wrong with todays law enforcement. I like to ask "What would Sheriff Andy Taylor do?"
OC for ME
Regular Member
Ask barney to hand over his one bullet before he accosts a citizen in the General Store.
OK I know some on here are going to flame me but here goes.
I have to ask about your appearance and what you were carrying.
A 21 year old wearing greasy jeans and an AR slung over shoulder is bound to attract attention.
A middle age man wearing a white shirt and tie and a pistol on his belt will be perceived differently.
This perception extends from employees to the police.
What comes out of your mouth can seal the deal either way.
By reading your OP I don't think you were the 21 year old AR. You would have had far more problems over the past 3 years.
The presence of your wife and child should have indicated you were no threat.
I agree the LP employee was likely feeling the oats of his new job. One might expect the topic of OC would have been covered in his training.
I know your 'rights' don't depent on your attire. But people reactions do.
I know the police should treat everyone with equal respect. But they don't.
A call of a man with a gun inside of a Walmart allegedly doing something is bound to draw more than a welcome letter. That's just the way things are these days.
Keep in mind that innocent until proven guilty only applies during your trial.
At all times before trial you are considered guilty unless you can prove otherwise.
Did the police ask if they could search your wallet?
I have to ask about your appearance and what you were carrying.
A 21 year old wearing greasy jeans and an AR slung over shoulder is bound to attract attention.
A middle age man wearing a white shirt and tie and a pistol on his belt will be perceived differently.
This perception extends from employees to the police.
What comes out of your mouth can seal the deal either way.
By reading your OP I don't think you were the 21 year old AR. You would have had far more problems over the past 3 years.
The presence of your wife and child should have indicated you were no threat.
I agree the LP employee was likely feeling the oats of his new job. One might expect the topic of OC would have been covered in his training.
I know your 'rights' don't depent on your attire. But people reactions do.
I know the police should treat everyone with equal respect. But they don't.
A call of a man with a gun inside of a Walmart allegedly doing something is bound to draw more than a welcome letter. That's just the way things are these days.
Keep in mind that innocent until proven guilty only applies during your trial.
At all times before trial you are considered guilty unless you can prove otherwise.
Did the police ask if they could search your wallet?
MyWifeSaidYes
Regular Member
My take:
While the Walmart employee pi$$ed you off by telling you take your gun outside, he broke no law. In fact, the law was and is on his side. You only need to be asked to leave. They do not need a reason.
You should have said, "Okay.", stored your gun in your car, THEN came back in and got a manager involved.
What did you do?
You said, "What are you, a stockboy?"
If I were in his shoes, I might have embellished my report to the cops as well. There is sheer joy involved in getting arrogant SOB's arrested.
The solution? Don't act like an arrogant SOB.
You seem to know WHAT to fight for. I suggest making different choices about WHEN and HOW to fight.
First Amendment protected foul language does NOT win you any favors during interactions like this.
And, if you get angry this easily, you'll soon find people that will suggest you not carry a handgun.
Anger and using foul language are ALSO two entirely different things. One does NOT require, or excuse, the other.
As to someone being scared by your gun being a reason to charge 'Inducing Panic', ask any LEO who they charge when the person is scared of the dark...or spiders...or lightning.......
While the Walmart employee pi$$ed you off by telling you take your gun outside, he broke no law. In fact, the law was and is on his side. You only need to be asked to leave. They do not need a reason.
You should have said, "Okay.", stored your gun in your car, THEN came back in and got a manager involved.
What did you do?
You said, "What are you, a stockboy?"
If I were in his shoes, I might have embellished my report to the cops as well. There is sheer joy involved in getting arrogant SOB's arrested.
The solution? Don't act like an arrogant SOB.
You seem to know WHAT to fight for. I suggest making different choices about WHEN and HOW to fight.
First Amendment protected foul language does NOT win you any favors during interactions like this.
And, if you get angry this easily, you'll soon find people that will suggest you not carry a handgun.
Anger and using foul language are ALSO two entirely different things. One does NOT require, or excuse, the other.
As to someone being scared by your gun being a reason to charge 'Inducing Panic', ask any LEO who they charge when the person is scared of the dark...or spiders...or lightning.......
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JustaShooter
Regular Member
In general I agree with your post, but not the underlined sections I've quoted above. I don't think a random employee qualifies as someone with authority to ask you to leave. I'd have suggested we go and discuss it with the manager or ask him to have the manager join us for a discussion.
Just my take.
eye95
Well-known member
How can you possibly know who has authority and who does not? Ask the person if he works for Walmart, if he says yes. Leave, disarm, come back, and raise the issue. If the individual does not work for Walmart, he will likely be asked to leave and not come back. If he does work for Walmart, the first question the manager will wrestle with is whether the associate has or even should have the authority to eject shoppers.
Remember, whatever the manager decides, he has to answer to the area manager. I don't know if the events are linked, but a manager who tossed a carrier disappeared from a Walmart in Alabama shortly after the tossage. My experience is that Walmart takes the ejection of its customers VERY seriously.
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<o>
JustaShooter
Regular Member
It is my opinion that the manager or owner has that authority, nobody else does. Are you telling me you are going to leave when the squeamish teenage waitress at a local restaurant says you can't have your gun here or are you going to ask to speak with the manager or owner - especially if you know the restaurant is pro 2A?
eye95
Well-known member
The owner can designate anyone he wishes to speak for him.
So, yes, I will leave. I will put my gun in the car. I will return and ask for the manager. If the pimple-face did not have the authority to do what she did, I suspect she will find out quickly the limits of her authority. If she had the authority, I may have saved myself a cuff'n'stuff.
The goal is to be effective, not just right.
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<o>
JustaShooter
Regular Member
And if they say "the manager (or owner) told me to ask you to leave" when they approach me or if when I ask to speak with the manager or owner I get a similar response, then I'll do as you indicated you would. But I'm not going to just leave unless someone with authority has asked that I do so - but I'm also not going to refuse to leave, rather as I said I'd ask to speak with the manager or owner.
Open carry law in Kansas states that it must be a person in a position of authority for the business. Walmart policy states it must be a manager that asks you to leave, not your average employee. My wife is a store manager for Walmart, this guy would have got a severe reprimand at least, an she isn't even that pro gun.
MyWifeSaidYes
Regular Member
Welcome to the forum, tcbrad!
Does your wife have that policy in writing?
I'm not doubting you, but folks here love to see things in writing.
JoeSparky
Centurion
Please don't confuse a policy requirement of a company with a legal requirement of a law.
JediSkipdogg
Regular Member
Last I checked with regards to criminal trespassing in Ohio it doesn't matter who it is.
(4) Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave upon being notified by signage posted in a conspicuous place or otherwise being notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either.
Last I checked a a waitress working for $3 an hour is an occupant and/or a servant of the owner. The stock boy also has ORC authority to tell you to leave. Once they say you need to leave, that's good enough for the law. If you want to ask for someone higher up you can, but it's not required as far as the law is concerned.
(4) Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave upon being notified by signage posted in a conspicuous place or otherwise being notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either.
Last I checked a a waitress working for $3 an hour is an occupant and/or a servant of the owner. The stock boy also has ORC authority to tell you to leave. Once they say you need to leave, that's good enough for the law. If you want to ask for someone higher up you can, but it's not required as far as the law is concerned.
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