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I work in an off limits zone for OC. Yesterday a man entered OC. Help! Questions!

dva2

New member
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
5
Location
Michigan
My supervisor thought it was fine. He only knew that Michigan was OC but none of the specifics. The man was there briefly with his family and caused no reason for alarm. I decided to educate myself as much as I could on the topic anyway.

From what I learned today I am to understand that what this man did was illegal due to the fact that we are an establishment that has a liquor licence. If I am correct then he did so either knowing it was or not knowing it was illegal. Either way I find this man in the wrong.

I would like to present to my manager the information I have found as well as a suggested protocol for the future should such an event occur again.

As an establishment where OC is prohibited, what is the best course of action to take when confronted with this situation?

Edit: Thanks for the responses! I have responded below. Please read my second question on the second page of the thread.
 
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B

Bikenut

Guest
My supervisor thought it was fine. He only knew that Michigan was OC but none of the specifics. The man was there briefly with his family and caused no reason for alarm. I decided to educate myself as much as I could on the topic anyway.

From what I learned today I am to understand that what this man did was illegal due to the fact that we are an establishment that has a liquor licence. If I am correct then he did so either knowing it was or not knowing it was illegal. Either way I find this man in the wrong.

I would like to present to my manager the information I have found as well as a suggested protocol for the future should such an event occur again.

As an establishment where OC is prohibited
, what is the best course of action to take when confronted with this situation?
OC in a place with a liquor license is not prohibited by law (is legal) for a person who has a CC license. OC with a CC license is even legal in a bar.

Thus the best course of action to take when confronted with the situation of a man OC'ing with his family who are causing no problems would seem to be to treat them the same as anyone else.

It is certainly up to you as to what protocol you wish to suggest to your manager but please allow me to sincerely and with good intentions suggest to you that whatever protocol you suggest be firmly based in Michigan firearm law... all of the firearm laws. And those laws can be searched for and found here:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28ikd15gauaz3ngg3u4skr3kqi%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=MCLBasicSearch
 
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Badger Johnson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,213
Location
USA
^^I like your .sig and agree, especially with the last part.

Good replies to the OP, as well.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
From what I learned today I am to understand that what this man did was illegal due to the fact that we are an establishment that has a liquor licence. If I am correct then he did so either knowing it was or not knowing it was illegal. Either way I find this man in the wrong.

I would like to present to my manager the information I have found as well as a suggested protocol for the future should such an event occur again.

The man OCing was definitely NOT doing anything illegal/wrong. People should be judged by their conduct.

What is your protocol for customers doing nothing wrong/illegal? Suggest you follow that and thank them for their business.

Here is a short interactive primer on OC:
http://www.opencarry.org/maps.html
 

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
My supervisor thought it was fine.

This is the key thing in my opinion, after you consider that the guy was lawfully carrying. If an owner/manager is anti gun, most folks here will politely go elsewhere and respect private property rights, while also encouraging everyone they know to also go elsewhere, but not too much of an issue will be made of it otherwise.

But as long as management is okay with carrying, the only grounds for kicking the carrier out should be acting in an offensive manner, which of course includes drinking which WOULD be against the law. I've never, ever heard of an OCer drinking while carrying, since OCers have a very strong tendency to be among the most law abiding and courteous people anywhere, so it's not something you're likely to encounter, but if you're looking to establish protocols, that is what I'd suggest.
 

Golden Eagle

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
253
Location
SW Michigan
I decided to educate myself as much as I could on the topic anyway.

From what I learned today I am to understand that what this man did was illegal due to the fact that we are an establishment that has a liquor licence. If I am correct then he did so either knowing it was or not knowing it was illegal. Either way I find this man in the wrong.

We're glad you came here to educate yourself.
Please respond educate us where you got your information?
wave2.gif
 

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
I work in an off limits zone for OC.

Unless you work in a court, casino, secure area of a jail, or federal property, you don't work in an "off limits zone" for OC, in Michigan.

This is because a Concealed Pistols License (CPL) allows OC everywhere except those places, and MANY people who OC have a CPL.

The only place in the above list that would probably have the liquor license you say your workplace does is a casino. So, the question is, do you work in a casino?

It is good that you come here to confirm your information, before giving your manager wrong suggestions.
 

lil_freak_66

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
1,799
Location
Mason, Michigan
with an establishment where alcohol is sold for on premises consumption, what is the best course of action to take when confronted with an OC situation?


All i could think of for actions to take would be to not sell that particular person any alcohol which would be consumed on premises,other then that treat them as you would any other normal patron
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
I have a CPL, and I dont conceal. I respect others right to do so, but I consider it to be bad practice.

To answer your question though, what should you do about it, welcome him with open arms, what you have here, is a free portable crime free zone. You should simply respect the persons rights, as others have died to retain those rights. If it makes you uncomfortable, then exercise your own rights by carrying your own gun.
 

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
All i could think of for actions to take would be to not sell that particular person any alcohol which would be consumed on premises,other then that treat them as you would any other normal patron
Actually, as long as he doesn't go over .02 BAC he'd still be legal. or rather, .019999999. ;)
 

maustin195

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
120
Location
, ,
Actually, as long as he doesn't go over .02 BAC he'd still be legal. or rather, .019999999. ;)

I believe the law is .02 when CC and .08 when OC. I don't personally think it is wise to consume any alcohol when armed but it is not illegal.
 

Bronson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,126
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
My supervisor thought it was fine.

Also, even a person that doesn't have a CPL can OC in an establishment that serves alcohol with the owner's or manager's permission.

750.234d

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

Bronson
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Unless you work in a court, casino, secure area of a jail, or federal property, you don't work in an "off limits zone" for OC, in Michigan.

This is because a Concealed Pistols License (CPL) allows OC everywhere except those places, and MANY people who OC have a CPL.

The only place in the above list that would probably have the liquor license you say your workplace does is a casino. So, the question is, do you work in a casino?

It is good that you come here to confirm your information, before giving your manager wrong suggestions.


small correction: One may not posses a pistol at a casino regulated by the Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226. This act ONLY regulates the casinos in Detroit... The State of Michigan does not have general regulatory authority over Indian casinos, although the State does have oversight authority over compliance with the State-Tribal Compact provisions. They are regulated by the National Indian Gaming Commission and the government of the appropriate tribal community.



Citation:

28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
Sec. 5o.

(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:....

(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.
 
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