Suicide stats

The gun rights' position that where LACs are restricted, crime increases is generally supported by statistics. There's also the statistical fact that half to two thirds of gun deaths are suicides which, according to gun advocates, would have been executed by other means if guns weren't available. The gun grabber stance is that guns make suicide "too easy" and people are more likely to seek help or have other intervention without them.

Does anyone have any insight to evidence for this? I.e. that suicide rates are just as high in Kalifornia, Chicago, NY, and DC? Crime rate certainly is, but what about suicides?

If someone really wants to kill themselves, they will find a way. Those who want help can seek it in a thousand ways. Those who don't can't be coerced into doing so.

Ultimately, it is nobody else's business anyway. Nobody has the right to force someone to remain alive, any more than they have a right to murder them.

mahkagari said:

The gun rights' position that where LACs are restricted, crime increases is generally supported by statistics. There's also the statistical fact that half to two thirds of gun deaths are suicides which, according to gun advocates, would have been executed by other means if guns weren't available. The gun grabber stance is that guns make suicide "too easy" and people are more likely to seek help or have other intervention without them.

Does anyone have any insight to evidence for this? I.e. that suicide rates are just as high in Kalifornia, Chicago, NY, and DC? Crime rate certainly is, but what about suicides?

Click to expand...

America's suicide rate is 12 per 100,000 people.
Worldwide average 10.7 per 100,000

Compared to other industrialized nations, it is not outrageous:
Greenland 108 per 100,000
Belgium 53 per 100,000
Japan 22 per 100,000
Finland 17 per 100,000
France 15 per 100,000
New Zealand 13 per 100,000
Austria 13 per 100,000
Sweden 12 per 100,000
Norway 12 per 100,000
Ireland 12 per 1000,000
Denmark 11 per 100,000
Switzerland 11 per 100,000
Germany 10 per 100,000
Austrailia 10 per 100,000
Luxumburg 8 per 100,000
Thiailand 8 per 100,000
Argentina 8 per 100,000
Spain 8 per 100,000
Italy 6 per 100,000
Brazil 5 per 100,000
Mexico 4 per 100,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

as you can see, a wide range of countries with a wide range of gun rights or lack thereof. Suicides are not greatly impacted by the presence or lack of firearms.

I don't remember where I saw it and as such I sadly can't give you a proper cite, but I had seen a thing that showed how when a state (I forget which one) implemented its 5day waiting period for buying a handgun that suicides by guns went down slightly...and suicides by other means went up slightly for no real net change in suicides. After work I will try looking for it if no one has posted a proper cite.

and:

State Ranking on Suicide Rates (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-11-28-depression-suicide-numbers_N.htm)

Suicides per 100,000 residents

1. District of Columbia: 5.3

2. New York: 6

3. Massachusetts: 6.4

4. New Jersey: 6.8

5. Rhode Island: 7.5

6. Illinois: 8

7. Connecticut: 8.2

8. Maryland: 8.9

9. Hawaii: 8.9

10. Nebraska: 9.5

11. California: 9.6

12. New Hampshire: 9.8

13. Minnesota: 10.1

14. Texas: 10.6

15. Michigan: 10.8

16. Virginia: 10.9

17. Delaware: 11.0

18. Pennsylvania: 11.1

19. Georgia: 11.1

20. North Dakota: 11.2

21. Indiana: 11.3

22. Ohio: 11.3

23. South Carolina: 11.3

24. Iowa: 11.5

25. Alabama: 11.8

26. Wisconsin: 11.9

27. North Carolina: 11.9

28. Louisiana (pre-Katrina): 12.1

29. Mississippi: 12.2

30. Missouri: 12.4

31. Maine: 12.4

32. Arkansas: 13

33. Florida: 13

34. Kentucky: 13.2

35. Tennessee: 13.2

36. Washington: 13.2

37. Kansas: 13.5

38. Vermont: 14.2

39. Oklahoma: 14.4

40. South Dakota: 14.9

41. Oregon: 14.9

42. West Virginia: 15.4

43. Arizona: 15.6

44. Colorado: 17.1

45. Utah: 17.1

46. Idaho: 17.5

47. Wyoming: 17.6

48. Montana: 18.7

49. New Mexico: 18.8

50. Nevada: 19

51. Alaska: 23.1

There does appear to be some corralation between high gun rights states and suicides. The western states (AZ, MT, NM, WY, UT and such) are at the top of the list, while the blue states (NY, CA, MA, NJ, etc) are at the low end. Execptions such as left leaning Maine being above the average, and Texas being below the average exist as well. The corralations may not be about gun access, however, and may include demographics, financial reasons, and such.

I couldn't find exactly what I had seen before, but here's a study from Australia on the subject:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12882416

This study examined the increase in the rate of suicide by hanging and an apparently simultaneous decrease in the rate of suicide by firearm as hypothetical evidence that Australian males have substituted one method of suicide for another...When the firearm suicide rate for Australian males declined the hanging rate increased simultaneously, with no statistical difference in the rate of change of the two methods...

Click to expand...

AZkopper said:

...There does appear to be some corralation between high gun rights states and suicides. The western states (AZ, MT, NM, WY, UT and such) are at the top of the list, while the blue states (NY, CA, MA, NJ, etc) are at the low end. Execptions such as left leaning Maine being above the average, and Texas being below the average exist as well. The corralations may not be about gun access, however, and may include demographics, financial reasons, and such.

Click to expand...

Though there's a lot more going on than the simple numbers show. For example in Alaska the "natives" make up ~18% of the population but have ~42:100k suicide rate compared to the "non natives" of 82% of the population but only ~17:100k suicide rate (as found here in the last paragraph). So one needs to look at why certain groups are more likely to commit suicide.

JTHunter said:

Anybody ever hear of "Seasonal Affected Disorder"? It's a form of depression that some people suffer during the long, dark winters. The more lack of sunshine, the greater the depression.
This darkness can be caused by living too high in the northern or southern lattitudes, or it can be in areas of frequent, heavy cloud cover and/or rains. The depression also leads to increase alcohol/drug abuse which "adds insult to injury".

Click to expand...

Refer a couple of posts previous to yours. It appears your little theory has some holes in it. Some of the States with the highest suicide rates are south, as far south as you can get, before you hit Mexican strawberry land.

JTHunter said:

Anybody ever hear of "Seasonal Affected Disorder"? It's a form of depression that some people suffer during the long, dark winters. The more lack of sunshine, the greater the depression.
This darkness can be caused by living too high in the northern or southern lattitudes, or it can be in areas of frequent, heavy cloud cover and/or rains. The depression also leads to increase alcohol/drug abuse which "adds insult to injury".

Click to expand...

SAD doesn't require long dark winters. I've known a few people that nearly every "winter" time-of-year they get more depressed regardless of where they lived. Yes if the winter is exceptionally dark/dreary it can be worse, but just the fact that winter sees less sunlight (both the time the sun is up and the typical increased cloud coverage) can cause it.

Oh and supposedly a proper UV light can help combat it, but I doubt most people even know of that, much less use it.