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Today I Was Turned Into a Criminal By My Government

Jeff. State

Banned
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Messages
650
Location
usa
King George III would be proud of our current government. They figured out how to tax us for NOT buying something.


And the Founding Fathers would be dry heaving over a list of grievances the American people gladly prostrate themselves to the Federal Government over.


What WE as American's SUBMIT to, dwarfs what the Revolutionary war was fought over.


A nation of sheep.
 
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sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Not all the founders. If it weren't for those radical, anarchistic, extremist the "anti-federalist" we wouldn't have the BOR or many of the restrictions put upon the Feds by the constitution.
 

Tawnos

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Washington
onus;2049022 every state and hospital offers a cash payment option that matches Medicare reimbursement rates. [/QUOTE said:
Source?

I know that many do, but not all. What would you have done if that full cost were billed to you and the hospital wasn't willing to negotiate down to the price you could afford?
 

onus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
699
Location
idaho
Source?

I know that many do, but not all. What would you have done if that full cost were billed to you and the hospital wasn't willing to negotiate down to the price you could afford?

I would have said... "bill me just like you bill all of the 12 million illegal aliens in California".
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
The wording says, in short: "failing to timely pay won't result in criminal charges." It doesn't say "if a user timely pays they won't be charged criminally." There are civil penalties. Wage garnishment, automatic deduction from money the government would otherwise be returning to you. Yet not criminal charges. <snip>
I did not address the criminality of non-payment. I addressed the "wording" of the "law" you cited. Does not "timely pay" is not the same as "will not pay." The "criminality" of non-payment, ever, is of little consequent to me. "Late payers" will not be held to account and "will not payers" are not "late payers in perpetuity."

I suspect that "will not payers" will be held to criminal account, at some point, under the current tax laws just as any tax evader that really gets under the IRSs' skin. The amount owed will add up year over year for the "will not payer."

haha, what ? where did I say that ?
You didn't, but that matters not to a liberal.
 

onus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
699
Location
idaho
Let's use government violence and threat of force to make people do something they don't want.

I am taking your quote a little out of context but the Obama Admin is bragging about how many people signed up for Obamacare. Its funny to me that they are bragging because people were FORCED to sign up or become criminals.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
I am taking your quote a little out of context but the Obama Admin is bragging about how many people signed up for Obamacare. Its funny to me that they are bragging because people were FORCED to sign up or become criminals.


True. The income tax is the same thing what a success everybody must love it because so many pay.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Nope, Someday they may NOT PAY THE BILL for getting the care that they did need. And anyone who refuses to pay the bill for the services they used should face the music for it!

So use government force to force them to pay for Healthcare insurance they don't want because someday they may need insurance?
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
I am taking your quote a little out of context but the Obama Admin is bragging about how many people signed up for Obamacare. Its funny to me that they are bragging because people were FORCED to sign up or become criminals.

You're on record crediting Republicans and Democrats for all the prosperity in America.

Nobody wants to hear your mealy-mouthed, conviction-free criticisms of government anymore. You love Obama. You love ObamaCare. (Or do you tell yourself that Mexicans did that, too? :rolleyes:)

Credibility = 0
 

onus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
699
Location
idaho
You're on record crediting Republicans and Democrats for all the prosperity in America.

Nobody wants to hear your mealy-mouthed, conviction-free criticisms of government anymore. You love Obama. You love ObamaCare. (Or do you tell yourself that Mexicans did that, too? :rolleyes:)

Credibility = 0

lol, oh goodness. that's not what I said.

have you moved to mexico yet ?
 

Tawnos

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Washington
haha, what ? where did I say that ?

Short version: if they bill you, and you cannot pay/you declare medical bankruptcy, those of us who can and do pay end up subsidizing your treatment. That socializes the funding of your care, because those who can pay are covering those who can't. Thus, if you couldn't get the discount you needed, you would be all for socialized healthcare (healthcare where the cost is paid by distributing it among many in society). Since medical bankruptcies are the number one cause of personal bankruptcy, over 60%, that isn't as unlikely a scenario as you might think.

Personally, I didn't think the ACA would be found constitutional and thought a better method would have been to use multi-state compacts to compare healthcare systems within the US. Moving to something like a public option seems a much better system than mandated private, but I think that should have been tried on a state level before being pushed federally. Now that it has been found constitutional, though, I'd prefer to see a better system than the mandated private insurance.
 

onus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
699
Location
idaho
Short version: if they bill you, and you cannot pay/you declare medical bankruptcy, those of us who can and do pay end up subsidizing your treatment. That socializes the funding of your care, because those who can pay are covering those who can't. Thus, if you couldn't get the discount you needed, you would be all for socialized healthcare (healthcare where the cost is paid by distributing it among many in society). Since medical bankruptcies are the number one cause of personal bankruptcy, over 60%, that isn't as unlikely a scenario as you might think.

You are partly wrong and partly right. Depends on the hospital.

Some hospitals are a business. If someone doesn't pay their bill the business then attempts collection through the allowed civil process.

Some hospitals are funded by the state and if someone doesn't pay then the state just loses money. However, the state loses money on these hospitals no matter what because these hospitals are usually Level 1 trauma centers and also teaching hospitals.

The truth is most people don't file for bankruptcy because they are bankrupt, they file because they simply want to shield themselves from having to pay their debts.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Short version: if they bill you, and you cannot pay/you declare medical bankruptcy, those of us who can and do pay end up subsidizing your treatment. That socializes the funding of your care, because those who can pay are covering those who can't. Thus, if you couldn't get the discount you needed, you would be all for socialized healthcare (healthcare where the cost is paid by distributing it among many in society). Since medical bankruptcies are the number one cause of personal bankruptcy, over 60%, that isn't as unlikely a scenario as you might think.

Personally, I didn't think the ACA would be found constitutional and thought a better method would have been to use multi-state compacts to compare healthcare systems within the US. Moving to something like a public option seems a much better system than mandated private, but I think that should have been tried on a state level before being pushed federally. Now that it has been found constitutional, though, I'd prefer to see a better system than the mandated private insurance.

So the government creates the moral hazard and the answer is more government force?
 

steelfed

New member
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Messages
1
Location
nc
original penalty proposed was jail

I remember when Obamacare was still in the preliminary stages of being introduced to Congress. The original penalty for not purchasing health insurance WAS jail. I cant recall the length of the proposed jail sentence.
 
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