rodbender
Regular Member
H ehas the right to carry the firearms the way he did. The folks that called in have no right NOT to be alarmed. Would I do something like this? Probably not.
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Man well within his rights, might be arrested OCing.
- Thread starter protect our rights
- Start date
- Status
since9
Campaign Veteran
Couple of points from the article...
"OREM -- A man who frightened shoppers at the University Mall in Orem by carrying guns in the open..."
How does that "frighten shoppers?" What sort of foreign ignoramuses are these sort of shoppers who were frightened here in the United States of America, home to the Second Amendment and others? Were they British shoppers? Perhaps members of the Australian parliament... :banghead:
"The man was wearing an unloaded assault rifle..."
Not too bright. Get a case.
""When you find out [the guns are] unloaded and he's just carrying them out in the open and they're not concealed, there's not much we can do," said Sgt. Craig Martinez, Orem Police Department."
I admire their professionalism. Good for them for not jumping through someone else's backside.
"Still, mall management was upset with the man..."
Oh, boo hoo! Waaaahhh!!!! Grow a brain. This is America. Don't like it? Please feel free to leave!
"Orem police have turned the case over to the city prosecutor for a possible charge of disorderly conduct."
Why in the world would they do that? I take back my comment about their professionlism.
"Officers say that's because the man's actions caused a disturbance to many people..."
Sounds to me like those "many people" need a civics lesson. Slap them with disorderly conduct for freaking out and causing such a ruckus.
""Aphosian said. "I think people that are carrying the firearms probably, truth be told, expect to be stopped or questioned.""
Actually, :banghead: I'd rather be treated just like any other law-abiding citizen. What a ridiculously moronic statement, Mr. Aphosian.
"At the same time, he said, gun ownership rights should be respected."
Oh. I feel so much better, now. Thanks.
"OREM -- A man who frightened shoppers at the University Mall in Orem by carrying guns in the open..."
How does that "frighten shoppers?" What sort of foreign ignoramuses are these sort of shoppers who were frightened here in the United States of America, home to the Second Amendment and others? Were they British shoppers? Perhaps members of the Australian parliament... :banghead:
"The man was wearing an unloaded assault rifle..."
Not too bright. Get a case.
""When you find out [the guns are] unloaded and he's just carrying them out in the open and they're not concealed, there's not much we can do," said Sgt. Craig Martinez, Orem Police Department."
I admire their professionalism. Good for them for not jumping through someone else's backside.
"Still, mall management was upset with the man..."
Oh, boo hoo! Waaaahhh!!!! Grow a brain. This is America. Don't like it? Please feel free to leave!
"Orem police have turned the case over to the city prosecutor for a possible charge of disorderly conduct."
Why in the world would they do that? I take back my comment about their professionlism.
"Officers say that's because the man's actions caused a disturbance to many people..."
Sounds to me like those "many people" need a civics lesson. Slap them with disorderly conduct for freaking out and causing such a ruckus.
""Aphosian said. "I think people that are carrying the firearms probably, truth be told, expect to be stopped or questioned.""
Actually, :banghead: I'd rather be treated just like any other law-abiding citizen. What a ridiculously moronic statement, Mr. Aphosian.
"At the same time, he said, gun ownership rights should be respected."
Oh. I feel so much better, now. Thanks.
Jonathon Sometimes
Regular Member
On March 9th this year,..
I was found guilty in Municipal Court here in Birmingham, Alabama of Disorderly Conduct for a similar situation. I was playing chess at the time of my arrest, on July 4th of last year of all days.
We are appealing to Circuit Court, but my sentencing was set for July of this year, to make me wait as long as possible.
Over $1000 worth of my firearms were stolen from my person and vehicle, which are still held in police lockup.
My Alabama CPL has been revoked for over 8 months, rendering me unable to transport a handgun in my vehicle, so I can only OC and then only anywhere I can walk.
Major lawsuits are being prepared.
I was found guilty in Municipal Court here in Birmingham, Alabama of Disorderly Conduct for a similar situation. I was playing chess at the time of my arrest, on July 4th of last year of all days.
We are appealing to Circuit Court, but my sentencing was set for July of this year, to make me wait as long as possible.
Over $1000 worth of my firearms were stolen from my person and vehicle, which are still held in police lockup.
My Alabama CPL has been revoked for over 8 months, rendering me unable to transport a handgun in my vehicle, so I can only OC and then only anywhere I can walk.
Major lawsuits are being prepared.
eye95
Well-known member
There is a thread where you can help defray Jonathon's legal fees. It is in the best interest of all of us that he win his case. If this injustice is allowed to stand, other prosecutors will be emboldened to use DC to harass folks for simple OC that is unaccompanied by any other acts that are traditionally thought of as disorderly.
DKSuddeth
Accomplished Advocate
guitly by a jury or bench trial?
Aknazer
Regular Member
Per the other thread it was by the judge. He's fighting now for a jury trial.
For the OP, that's retarded that he's being charged with disorderly conduct. Granted I likely would have contacted the authorities or simply asked the person myself, but that's because carrying something like that is so out of the normal. I would rather have the cops talk with the person and determine that there's nothing wrong than later find out that the person was on his way to commit a crime.
Now if carrying of rifles in places like malls was more common I wouldn't think about it (like seeing people in hunting garb with guns), but that is just too out of the norm to not at least make sure that something wasn't amiss.
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Jonathon Sometimes
Regular Member
Bench.
Municipal Court Judge Tracie Todd's personal opinion, despite the prosecution and their case being made fools of in a court of law.
Municipal Court Judge Tracie Todd's personal opinion, despite the prosecution and their case being made fools of in a court of law.
A real case of the dumb-arse if you ask me to be walking around in front a shopping mall with a uncased rifle. Coupled with the open display of a handgun and knife. Even if totally in compliance with all applicable state gun-related statutes, a bit of common sense would be in order. I'm not all that surprised the cops came up with a DC charge; I bet the 911 switchboard was swamped with MWAG calls from mall shoppers.
I'm all for pushing back to test/maintain 2A rights but this one stepped (way) over the line. Lucky the PD didn't tack on an intimidation brandishing charge as well.
I'm all for pushing back to test/maintain 2A rights but this one stepped (way) over the line. Lucky the PD didn't tack on an intimidation brandishing charge as well.
Many feel that OC with a handgun is stepping over that line. Yes it's lawful and your right, but only a dumb-arse would walk around with a gun on his hip. This isn't the wild west after all. Keep that thing in your house, locked up and field stripped.
You're the furthest from pushing back to test/maintain 2A rights.
Who decides where that line is?
RR_Broccoli
Regular Member
In Wisconsin and Illinois there is no concealed carry, period. Are you saying, that by crossing over the Wisconsin / Iowa state line (say, walking with a gun in their visible holster) they are a dumb arse on one side of the line and not a dumb arse with the next step on other side of the line while doing the exact same thing with no change in behavior?
Sounds to me like you don't actually believe the 2nd amendment is a constitutional or a human right at all, and are just interested in the rule of the mob or arbitrary laws.
The dumb arsery is the laws, the enforcement thereof, and the "I got mine so I don't care about yours" mentality.
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http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9A4SU8G1
The incident I'm referring to here of course is his carry of a handgun with the president nearby as some would call that a 'dumb-arse' move. We don't talk about long gun OC here.
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The guys in blue, tan, etc. who do law enforcement for a living; hopefully, tempered with some common sense and sound judgment based on statutes. And eventually adjudicated by the courts system.
But that common sense part is a two way street...carriers have some responsibility as well. And marching around outside a shopping mall with an exposed long gun, pistol and knife shortly after a mass killing is just dumb in my way of thinking. That's akin to being dead right.
You can skewer me for saying it but there's a limit to how much society will tolerate before we are thought of as radical kooks to be reined in. And embracing this guy actions even though he was in the right by the legal letter of the law isn't going to win us any friends.
I CC, I OC, I attend the relevant meetings, I support those wronged financially and physically at their trials but I'm not going to stand up and say this guy's actions were responsible behavior. He's either looking for attention or has lost sight of reality. We've fought too hard for our modest 2A gains to have our momentum slowed by support for stunts like this.
Seriously?
The guys in blue, tan etc?
You declare yourself a 2A supporter but worry about what society will tolerate? A neutered right is no right, it is a privilege. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand? The ones you mentioned are the ones enforcing California, New Jersey, New York, etc laws.
This may be a dangerous place for your psyche. Most of us have ideals in FREEDOM. I fear you may be losing your religion so to speak, or even find that you never truly believed in the first place.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...s-questioned&p=1468024&viewfull=1#post1468024
The guys in blue, tan etc?
You declare yourself a 2A supporter but worry about what society will tolerate? A neutered right is no right, it is a privilege. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand? The ones you mentioned are the ones enforcing California, New Jersey, New York, etc laws.
This may be a dangerous place for your psyche. Most of us have ideals in FREEDOM. I fear you may be losing your religion so to speak, or even find that you never truly believed in the first place.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...s-questioned&p=1468024&viewfull=1#post1468024
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eye95
Well-known member
I cannot believe that someone would make that blue/tan comment!
They make zero decisions as to what rights are. They are expected to know that black-letter and case law say that rights are, and then operate in a manner that respects them.
Shame on anyone who thinks that the guys in blue or tan make rights decisions!
They make zero decisions as to what rights are. They are expected to know that black-letter and case law say that rights are, and then operate in a manner that respects them.
Shame on anyone who thinks that the guys in blue or tan make rights decisions!
flb_78
Regular Member
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if YOU are such a big supporter of the 2A why is it that you, and all of the "hardcore freedom fighters" here get all hush hush about long rifle OC? Is it or is it NOT a right? Why is it that you can sit there saying that the other guy is not a 2a supporter because he doesnt agree with OCing around sensitive areas or at sensitive times, yet you guys wont even TALK about long rifle OC even though its the right of many people to carry them.
Because the rules of an internet forum tell you not to talk about them? You guys talk about OCing in areas that you KNOW dont like it or even dont allow it, yet speaking of something thats against the rules on a discussion forum zips you right up??
It would probably be safe to say that long rifle OC discussion is off limits because people know its extreme and dont want to be associated with it. So you let other peoples rights slide while you promote and support your own, how is that having an "ideal in FREEDOM"? Its more like having ideals in what works for "you".
~*'Phoenix'*~
Regular Member
Annoys?
really?
Annoys?
Isn't there a 1st amendment too?
really?
Annoys?
Isn't there a 1st amendment too?
eddallen1958
Regular Member
I'm all for our 2nd amendment rights and this guy was within his rights. But, we do have to use a little bit of common sense and not abuse our rights. I don't carry just because I can and anyone that does so is only a danger to themselves and everyone around them. I carry for one specific reason. It is my self defense weapon; for both me and anyone that needs help. I'm not out there to impress anyone with my weapon; if I'm going to flash it around unless I'm going to be pointing it in someone's face.
Let's face it, with all the gangbanger's out there it's no wonder people got nervous. Nobody knew who this guy was or what his intentions were. This is why our government wants to take our rights away.
A gun is a weapon and I think some people seem to forget this.
Let's face it, with all the gangbanger's out there it's no wonder people got nervous. Nobody knew who this guy was or what his intentions were. This is why our government wants to take our rights away.
A gun is a weapon and I think some people seem to forget this.
protect our rights
Regular Member
Did anyone here say his actions were RESPONSIBLE? We are simply saying. police do not have the pleasure of picking and choosing what laws they want to enforce and when they want to enforce them. Also make laws up for that matter. If you did nothing illegal, then YOU SHOULDN'T BE ARRESTED!!!!! it's actually really simple to understand if you really TRY to think about it.
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